This just in ... merger talks continue with "less generous terms."

[IXLR8]

Like I have posted before..Anderson will do what he can to come out of this looking like the good guy..while Steenland is the Bad guy..again. I am not supporting Steenland. It has been very quiet lately..not surprised that DS wants the merger.

 

[Superpilot92]

Quite true, but are you a minority at NWA or a silent majority. If that is the case them speak up and tell you MEC.

Thats not true, i have been saying it all along and a large number of people i talk with at NWA feel the same. The problem is we need to be focusing on this as a ALPA pilot group not the red-tails vs the widgets! We can all come ahead in this or all get left behind and pissed for the rest of our careers. I dont want that i am sure none of us do. Bottom line is neither MEC has presented this to vote so we havent seen "the deal" we all hear one side of the story. I agree the mudslinging needs to stop!!

MGMT is going to pursue this and either we get in there and have it our way or they are going to line their pockets their way :smash:

 

[GogglesPisano]

If incentives are taken off the table, what to the DAL pilots gain from this merger?





March 28, 2008, 4:46 pm
Northwest-Delta: We Don’t Need No Stinkin’ Pilots
Posted by Heidi Moore
The airline industry may be a place where good ideas go to die.

The best idea in the industry, for instance, is on the rocks. Delta and Northwest had the unprecedented, and widely heralded, idea to get the blessing of their pilots before agreeing to a merger. Unfortunately, the talks have died, stopped by bickering over which airlines get to call the shots on how pilots rank in seniority. Northwest, desperate to do a deal before a new Justice Department comes in under a new president, has suggested that the two parties jettison the pilots’ prenuptial agreement and give the pilots less favorable financial terms.

Sigh.

Which gets us back to how airline mergers usually work: they don’t. The two airlines strike a deal, and then spend the rest of their lives trying to navigate labor disputes. It’s a long, litigious, ugly process. Look at US Airways and America West, who have spent the two years since their merger in labor hell.


Of course, you would expect Northwest to throw themselves at Delta and promise anything to get this deal done. FTN Midwest Securities analyst Michael Derchin put it best in a Feb. 27 research report, in which he wrote:

The group that has the most to gain from the merger is the [Northwest] pilots and all [Northwest] employees who are paid less than the [Delta] employees and will get an immediate bump up in wages, have a greater ability to fly a wide body aircraft sooner, and get an equity stake in the new [Delta]. [Delta] pilots and management feel because [Northwest] pilots have the most to gain they should compromise on the seniority list. As one pilot said to me, “they can’t have their cake and eat it too.”
Delta looked high-minded for trying to do it another way, and get the pilots onboard from the beginning. But what they’re learning is that the process will be equally ugly no matter when you do it: whether now or later, airlines and their labor unions are just fated to fight.

 

[Superpilot92]

What happened to your old avatar. That one was better.

Some forum nazi, said it was to "raunchy" I guess a beautiful woman in her underwear bothered him, lame i know. The bad part is it was way less revealing than my old painted up superchick.

 

[jester757]

Thats not true, i have been saying it all along and a large number of people i talk with at NWA feel the same. The problem is we need to be focusing on this as a ALPA pilot group not the red-tails vs the widgets! We can all come ahead in this or all get left behind and pissed for the rest of our careers. I dont want that i am sure none of us do. Bottom line is neither MEC has presented this to vote so we havent seen "the deal" we all hear one side of the story. I agree the mudslinging needs to stop!!

MGMT is going to pursue this and either we get in there and have it our way or they are going to line their pockets their way :smash:

I finally agree with what you are saying! BOTH of our MECs SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To be honest...I am more affraid of my MEC selling me out than our managment. In my opinion the DALPA has screwed us by putting our opening offer on the table and having the closed door sesions with our mgmt. Now if this is not a scary statement, I don't know what is.

 

[FDJ2]

BF surprise here.....
Way to go NW pilots, maybe when this deal is done you'll get nothing and like it!imp:


737

Like I said a couple of weeks ago, expect to hear "that was then, this is now." The transaction framework agreement is dead. It was dead over two weeks ago. NWA management still wants the merger though.

 

[bravodude]

LBB is starting to look a liitle more appealing now huh General!

 

[bravodude]

Hey zipper:
Isn't it about time for your afternoon bottle and a nap?
Before you know it, school will be out!
I love it how some twa loser has anything to say regarding seniority integration, since he waived his up for the amr buyout of his company! Give your lawyer a call, he seems to be the only one caring about what you have to say!
Now, don't go away mad, just go away!

737

Don't worry dude you are going to get what u deserve verry soon my man.

 

[Noserider76]

If incentives are taken off the table, what to the DAL pilots gain from this merger?

This is a terrible time to be burning through the cash to put this together. My very unofficial poll says about 75% at DL are against the merger. Now it looks like we've F'ed away the only part that had any redeeming value at all. Management is sure to get the fences they didn't want if they force this deal, especially with no incentives.

 

[FDJ2]

Management is sure to get the fences they didn't want if they force this deal, especially with no incentives.

The only management that apparently still wants this merger is NWA. I'm not too sure DAL is interested at this point. DAL maybe looking at different strategic alternatives.

 

[tomgoodman]

Good Cop's turn next

Stand by for RA to say: "OK guys, I managed to stall this take-away for another week, but you have to act now. I've done all I can, and the BOD is about ready to go ahead without giving you anything." If the MECs do agree on a list, this gives them the political cover of having had "a gun to their heads" when the wailing and gnashing of teeth begins.

 

[johnsonrod]

It's pretty simple. Anderson waived his merger-related bonus and Steeland didn't. Now we see what is truly motivating Steeland - he wants to cash out and bail on this sinking industry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Superpilot92]

Or you guys are getting played like pawns. This is probably completely a mgmt screwjob and by all accounts you guys are falling for it. Steenland is on his way out so he can come across like he is the bad guy forcing the deal. Mean while RA is going to keep petting you guys hoping you wag your tails. straight out of management play book. Good cop bad cop, buehler?

 

[hockeypilot44]

Next step is to "blackmail" the pilot groups. Merge under current contracts or risk furloughs. It's coming. Hopefully ALPA doesn't let management push us around.

 

[FDJ2]

Or you guys are getting played like pawns. This is probably completely a mgmt screwjob and by all accounts you guys are falling for it. Steenland is on his way out so he can come across like he is the bad guy forcing the deal. Mean while RA is going to keep petting you guys hoping you wag your tails. straight out of management play book. Good cop bad cop, buehler?

It's interesting that NWA management doesn't find NWALPA relevant, let's see if DAL management thinks the same about DALPA.

Played like pawns?

Has any management ever even considered pilots before announcing a merger. The fact that we have even been considered is groundbreaking.

Let's see how this all plays out. So far the only players who seem interested in pursuing this are NWA management and NWALPA.

I expect the next move to be from NWALPA trying to sell their expedited arbitration scheme again.

 

[Superpilot92]

It's pretty simple. Anderson waived his merger-related bonus and Steeland didn't. Now we see what is truly motivating Steeland - he wants to cash out and bail on this sinking industry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know you dont help anything with your unfounded flame baiting. you dont even work for the companies in question yet you attempt to fan the flames a lot, why is that?

 

[Fly4hire]

Does it matter, really? If the hedge fund pricks want the merger, they'll get it.....The nwa pilots wanted their rediculous DOH demands, and will get less now, maybe nothing, and have to deal with it!
Its incredible, first their mec comes back to the bargaining table (loosely used term with regards to nwa), and now their management!

737

Actually you and Moak will be eating crow shortly. Without incentives we need the deal even less, and you are either going to negotiate a fair SLI or you'll get it in arbitration. Keep deluding yourself.

 

[JAM-BRO]

FDJ

Do you really think that NWA is the only one wanting this? Do you think that NWA today just came up with this great merger revival on their own? If you do, you are more gullible than I thought. RA, DS, NWA and DAL have their finger prints all over this. Like I said before, this is the deadline. Us pilots take it with incentives or it will go through without them. RA could not come out and say, "we are going to merge without the pilots", because he made you a "promise". How could you trust him in the future if he did that. They found a way. Steenland comes in and does all the dirty work. Steenland has done it before. He locked out the mechs and almost did it to the FAs. Then he screwed everyone that NWA owed money to. And the worst part of it all is, that he(Steenland) sleeps good at night even though he ruined thousands of families. As for RA, he is not any better than Steenland. He walked away from NWA in its darkest hour. He will do it with DAL too if he had to. Just because he can. He doesn't care about the pilots.

We can't stop this from happening dude. You might think that you can but I think you are wrong. If an SLI is not reached, they will say that they are going to save us from ourselves and do it anyways. They will say that they needed to save both companies in these trying times and give us nothing for it. They will say that by moving forward expeditiously and merging they will be saving all our jobs. We should all be grateful to at least have a job....

You say "that was then, this is now", I agree. But they know that they cannot go back on the original deal.The bennies will still be there if we act now. If not, they will do it anyways and we will get nothing. That would be a shame...
By the way, this is not a personal attack on you...

WE NEED TO GET TOGETHER OR THEY WIN...

The only management that apparently still wants this merger is NWA. I'm not too sure DAL is interested at this point. DAL maybe looking at different strategic alternatives.

 

[NuGuy]

It's interesting that NWA management doesn't find NWALPA relevant, let's see if DAL management thinks the same about DALPA.

FDJ,

Of COURSE management doesn't see NWA ALPA (or DAL ALPA) as relevant. The only difference between our groups is that the NWA guys already KNEW this, and you guys were buying into the press releases, despite our best attempts in trying to warn you guys

As someone from our ALPA forum said "this is typical management...the carrot and the stick...they tried the carrot, now here comes the stick". If you guys don't believe that you will be on the same sh!t end of the stick as the NWA guys, then you will be sadly disappointed.

BTW, Anderson and his head honchos cancelled their travel plans this weekend for several initial DAL international flights. DAL has no poison pill, and the stock is near record lows.

Nu

 

[737 Pylt]

Don't worry dude you are going to get what u deserve verry soon my man.

Speaking of cracks in airplanes, how goes it my little southwest sweetie?

737

 

[General Lee]

LBB is starting to look a liitle more appealing now huh General!

Than Rome, Italy? I don't think so.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[737 Pylt]

Actually you and Moak will be eating crow shortly. Without incentives we need the deal even less,

Then why do you guys keep calling???
You're like the fat kid at the dance who nobody wants to dance with!

and you are either going to negotiate a fair SLI or you'll get it in arbitration. Keep deluding yourself.

We tried a fair sli, your side's rediculous demands didn't work, get it!?

737

 

[Sedona16]

FDJ,

BTW, Anderson and his head honchos cancelled their travel plans this weekend for several initial DAL international flights. DAL has no poison pill, and the stock is near record lows.

Nu

Well if you used some honesty in reporting you would also say why these few flights were cancelled. Do you want to or do you want me to? It had nothing to do with oil or the economy even though thats what you were hinting at.

 

[737 Pylt]

FDJ,


BTW, Anderson and his head honchos cancelled their travel plans this weekend for several initial DAL international flights. DAL has no poison pill, and the stock is near record lows.

Nu

Heyas nuguy.....
ALL airline stocks are at record lows, nwa included. Or did you conviently forget that too?

737

 

[FDJ2]

Actually you and Moak will be eating crow shortly. Without incentives we need the deal even less, and you are either going to negotiate a fair SLI or you'll get it in arbitration. Keep deluding yourself.

If we go to arbitration, we go to arbitration, but I still doubt there will be a merger regardless how much NWA management and pilots want it.

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ,

Of COURSE management doesn't see NWA ALPA (or DAL ALPA) as relevant. The only difference between our groups is that the NWA guys already KNEW this, and you guys were buying into the press releases, despite our best attempts in trying to warn you guys


That attitude is precisely why you are not relevant and why it took DALPA leadership to create the transaction framework agrement.

BTW, Anderson and his head honchos cancelled their travel plans this weekend for several initial DAL international flights.
Nu

DAL just had its entire MD88 fleet grounded, you don't think they might be trying to get the airline running on schedule again do you?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Memo out today states that the will be working the MD-88 AD all weekend. It is on the DAL net below the trim tab. I am guessing that is where these guys will be this weekend.

 

[NuGuy]

Well if you used some honesty in reporting you would also say why these few flights were cancelled. Do you want to or do you want me to? It had nothing to do with oil or the economy even though thats what you were hinting at.

Heyas,

I don't need to hint at anything:

"Anderson had planned to take Delta's first flight Saturday to London's Heathrow airport; that route is becoming available as the result of an open skies agreement that takes effect Sunday between the European Union and the United States. Delta has been seeking the route for decades.

Meanwhile, Bastian canceled plans to go along with Gov. Sonny Perdue on Delta's first flight Sunday between Atlanta and Shanghai, China -- another route Delta has long lobbied to get."

Sounds like something important came up. I'm sure that RA has competent people who can re-wrap some wire bundles in their MD-88s without him looking over their shoulder.

Nu

 

[johnsonrod]

Anderson and Bastian not available this weekend? Hmmmmm. My bet would be secret talks between Delta and Aeroflot. Delta pilots could be stapled onto the bottom of the Aeroflot list and fly 35-year old Tupolevs (still more advanced than the NWA Diesel 9s). One benefit: I am sure the stews would be far younger and a lot HOTTER.

 

[JAM-BRO]

You guys are funny.... Yeap, I can see Bastian and Anderson rolling up their sleeves and getting to work on those MD-80 inspections. Article I read said that all inpections to be completed by Friday evening...
It also said that it only affected 3% of the DAL schedule was affected. Normally airlines cancel about 1.5% of their flights daily. 3% for two days is not something that will make Anderson cancel a ride on DAL's inaugural trip to Heathrow. DAL has been lobbying for this a long time...

But I will go with your story. They are in the hangar in ATL with their sleeves rolled up, removing floor boards on MD-80s....

Memo out today states that the will be working the MD-88 AD all weekend. It is on the DAL net below the trim tab. I am guessing that is where these guys will be this weekend.