Delta and Northwest revive merger talks

[nwaredtail]

You didn't see the part about a 15% pay raise for NWA pilots, our workrules(huge for you guys), equity (reports of up to 100K for each of us), no fences so you could bid other bases, Steenland leaving, and you keeping your pension? You missed all of that? You weren't going to be stapled, rather be within .05% of you current spot--something you would have gotten in arbitration too. But noooooooo. Our guy Moak stated in writing that it would have been within .05%. Everyone else in the WORLD except the USAir Easties would think that is a good deal. You are a smaller airline with old planes and new ones on back order that may never get here at this rate. Please come back to reality. Can you give us some facts in your offer to us? How will you compensate us for not having a pension while you get our work rules? (what each of us kept during our BKs)


Bye Bye--General Lee

All rumors. As far as a smaller airline, yup, this you are correct about. FINALLY. Smaller, more cash, less debt, better performance, better profits. Would you like me to stop?

Those are facts. Oh, and by the way, we keep our pension regardless of DAL. What happened to yours again?

 

[General Lee]

So, it seems my posts are factual, ie financial numbers, etc. and your posts are a playscript of what the shortman said happened in NY. When you give some facts that can be actually backed up, let's us know.

Until then, you sound like a SCAB, and as my DAL buddies told me, you're in the minority of what most DAL guys think. Always that 1%.

Really, try to put some actual facts in your posts that you can prove with data or transcripts.

Ah, selective retention. Your "buddies" better jump on our forum, because it is THEY who are in the 1 percent. I have posted the facts, here is a recap:

1) The merger IS going to happen
2) You have gone to arbitration as your sole means of negotiation in the past
3) NWA was NEGOTIATED more than a fair amount of the original offering just to bring them to parity with the Delta pilots. This included a 14% DC to those who were getting 0% currently
4) The Delta pilots came to NWA in the SLI with a fair list which actually gave NWA more than relative position as a good faith offer to settle it quickly, showing them shapshots of ANY pilot on their list and the difference in their career earnings under NWA stand alone plan and the plan as a merged corporation.
5) NWA holds fast that this was a negotiation, and that we needed to move from our position, while not budging from theirs.
5 1/2) NWA pilots assure the world and try and convince themselves that they have a great scope clause, a great balance sheet, a lot of money in the bank, and the ability to be baffoons.
6) Our mEC explains that this was not a negotiation, that is what the contract settlement was. This was a fair proposal from the Delta pilots, the numbers backed it up, and that they were open to suggestions.
7) Talks break down.
7 1/2) NWA pilots assure the world and try and convince themselves that they have a great scope clause, a great balance sheet, a lot of money in the bank, and the ability to be baffoons.
8) NWA came back with its tail between its legs with another proposal, which they thought benefitted them. It actually benefitted the Delta pilots more. Delta MEC accepted. Rumors floated of an agreement, NWA figured out their mistake and reneged on the deal.
9) Delta MEc informed RA that no agreement could be reached.
10) NWA MEC called again to talk about blather, blather, blather.
11) Delta MEC says no thanks.
12) Oil continues its pace, and airlines start closing doors.
12 1/2) NWA reconvince themselves that their balance sheet is great, they hold all of the cards, ATL sucks, LAX sucks, SLC sucks despite the fact that more of their commuters live near those hubs than commuting DAL pilots live near DTW, MSP.
13) Steenland gets nervous, sells out his pilots.
14) Delta pilots are informed that the pressure to get this deal done is enormous, here's a way to make it happen.
15) Delta MEC mulls over agreement yesterday and today. No official announcement as of yet.
16) NWA pilots contend that Delta pilots are greedy after robbing them of contractual gains. NWA pilots
call Delta pilots scabs after backing them into a corner and painting themselves into one.


All factual. How'd I do?

I'd say that is RIGHT ON.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Fly4hire]

We could stop the merger again, and find ourselves right back where we started. Then it will come again with less. My opinion is that our MEC, of course, saw that they were playing chicken with a suicide bomber without purpose or direction, and grabbed the money and ran with their backup plan.

You blinked.

No suicide bombers, just a pilot group that has dealt with far worse than you pups for a long time.

 

[General Lee]

All rumors. As far as a smaller airline, yup, this you are correct about. FINALLY. Smaller, more cash, less debt, better performance, better profits. Would you like me to stop?

Those are facts. Oh, and by the way, we keep our pension regardless of DAL. What happened to yours again?

Wow, you are making more money. That will make RA even more happy, and our combined balance sheet look fantastic. I bet the "new Delta" will make more profits when they park the gas guzzling DC9s and old 742s. When will that happen? Eventually.

Where did our pension go? It went away with our top 2000 pilots. We did get a $650 million note for 6500 pilots, which came out to $70,000 or so for me, $46k of that going into my 401K allottment for 2008, and the rest was TAXED. Most guys under 10 years got less than $30k. Sound like a pension to you? And another fact you always forget is that we parked a bunch of planes when those guys retired--MD11s, 767-200s, 737-300/200s. The same thing is likely to happen to you now.

How are your current work rules? I hear you have 5 day trips for your DC9s? That suks. I bet there are a lot more inefficiencies that could be cleaned up with our rules. Someday you may realize them, after you realize reality. It will happen eventually.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

How exactly do the guys at NWA that actually do have the pensions, "GET" to keep their pensions? How does that even fall into your DAL guys negotiating strategy? The NWA guys with pensions arent "GETTING" to keep anything because of DAL, they got their pensions because they earned them and didnt sell theirs out. That isnt even a negotiated issue so how does that get involved with your negotiation tactics? I see a lot of seriously flawed thinking processes by mainly the DAL side IMHO.

 

[General Lee]

You blinked.

No suicide bombers, just a pilot group that has dealt with far worse than you pups for a long time.

You aren't looking at what is happing around you. Times aren't great, and oil isn't getting cheaper. And, one facilitator of this deal could always back out--Air France---who is willing to give us (a combined us) $750 million EUROS (worth over $1 billion). That means an investor who isn't a hedge fund and someone who wants our airline to stick around. This deal needs to be done soon, and without it could spell doom or another trip to the BK court for all of us. Your DC9s and 742s would continue to bring down your profits at this oil price level, and Steenland decided to sell you out. Look around you and see what is happening. Don't worry, WHEN you do agree to our FAIR SLI, you will get a nice fat raise, better rules, and access to the best NASCAR events all around the South.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

Wow, you are making more money. That will make RA even more happy, and our combined balance sheet look fantastic. I bet the "new Delta" will make more profits when they park the gas guzzling DC9s and old 742s. When will that happen? Eventually.

Where did our pension go? It went away with our top 2000 pilots. We did get a $650 million note for 6500 pilots, which came out to $70,000 or so for me, $46k of that going into my 401K allottment for 2008, and the rest was TAXED. Most guys under 10 years got less than $30k. Sound like a pension to you? And another fact you always forget is that we parked a bunch of planes when those guys retired--MD11s, 767-200s, 737-300/200s. The same thing is likely to happen to you now.

How are your current work rules? I hear you have 5 day trips for your DC9s? That suks. I bet there are a lot more inefficiencies that could be cleaned up with our rules. Someday you may realize them, after you realize reality. It will happen eventually.


Bye Bye--General Lee

5 day trips are nice for commuting purposes. Makes for less commutes for those who commute. Go to work and get it over with, make sense? Not everyone likes them and not everyone does them just like anywhere else bid what you want.

 

[General Lee]

How exactly do the guys at NWA that actually do have the pensions, "GET" to keep their pensions? How does that even fall into your DAL guys negotiating strategy? The NWA guys with pensions arent "GETTING" to keep anything because of DAL, they got their pensions because they earned them and didnt sell theirs out. That isnt even a negotiated issue so how does that get involved with your negotiation tactics? I see a lot of seriously flawed thinking processes by mainly the DAL side IMHO.

Yes, you kept them, but lost your work rules. If we merge, you get our rules, but also keep the pension you kept. We don't get our pensions back, and what we did get in compensation ($650 million note) will be far less than what most NWA pilots will get when they retire. Got it? You get something back from us, but we don't get our pensions back.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[nwaredtail]

General Lee to Puff," you know, we have a lot of the same fantasies".
Puff," Yeah, I noticed that to"
General," How fast is your computer?"
Puff," Really, really fast, You want to see?"
As Puff slowly inches over," Wow, that is fast. Can I touch it?"
General,"ooohhh, you have very strong hands."
Puff,"Hey General, you know, why don't we put these computers away, turn off the lights and discuss how great our new pay raises will be"
General," you read my mind"

cue 1970 porn music

 

[General Lee]

5 day trips are nice for commuting purposes. Makes for less commutes for those who commute. Go to work and get it over with, make sense? Not everyone likes them and not everyone does them just like anywhere else bid what you want.

We have 6 day INTL trips (up to 40 hours), and even 9 day trips for crazy people who don't like their wife or kids. We also have 1 day turns(ATL-Guatemala City-ATL), 2 day trips (Bogota, Caracas), 3 day trips worth over 20 hours (ATL--Athens, Prague, Vienna, Zurich etc), 4 day trips worth about 20 hours but with 36 hour layovers down south in warm weather---Rio, Buenos Aires, Santiago, etc) just on the INTL 767-300ER in ATL. NYC has the same, and our 767-400 (765) in ATL has plenty of great trips. The 777 in ATL has a 3 day to NRT worth 28 hours, and other trips to Shanghai, Dubai, Tel Aviv, Seoul, etc. Lot's of variety for people in ATL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

You aren't looking at what is happing around you. Times aren't great, and oil isn't getting cheaper. And, one facilitator of this deal could always back out--Air France---who is willing to give us (a combined us) $750 million EUROS (worth over $1 billion). That means an investor who isn't a hedge fund and someone who wants our airline to stick around. This deal needs to be done soon, and without it could spell doom or another trip to the BK court for all of us. Your DC9s and 742s would continue to bring down your profits at this oil price level, and Steenland decided to sell you out. Look around you and see what is happening. Don't worry, WHEN you do agree to our FAIR SLI, you will get a nice fat raise, better rules, and access to the best NASCAR events all around the South.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Well GL another flawed outtake, NWA made more money than DAL did last year, right? Gasp, even with the dc9's? Cant be!! Oh and the 747-200s are doing just fine, actually we just resigned with DHL and just signed a deal to do more ground handleing for other cargo companies over in china = more $. By the way whats so exciting about Circle track racing? I am all for fast cars and drinking beer so if thats what its about i can see it, but if its just to watch cars drive around in circles, i dont know?

 

[General Lee]

Well GL another flawed outtake, NWA made more money than DAL did last year, right? Gasp, even with the dc9's? Cant be!! Oh and the 747-200s are doing just fine, actually we just resigned with DHL and just signed a deal to do more ground handleing for other cargo companies over in china = more $. By the way whats so exciting about Circle track racing? I am all for fast cars and drinking beer so if thats what its about i can see it, but if its just to watch cars drive around in circles, i dont know?

UPS is now parking their 742s and 741s. If they are doing it, do you think you are making such a great profit? JAL Cargo, All Nippon Cargo, Korean Air Cargo, are all parking their older 742s. Even Atlas Air is slowing disposing of them. Kalitta is keeping theirs, but they are now getting 744s. Why would those airlines be doing that? Are they just wrong? Maybe UPS doesn't make enough money?? Right? What if RA parks your 742s and replaces them with some of your 744s? That could happen, and replace the 744 routes with our 777s. Many Asian airlines are using 777s across the Pacific now. ANA has only 773s to the US from NRT. EVA Air flies them to JFK and LAX from TPE. Cathay flies 2 daily 773ERs from HKG to JFK now. Korean flies them from ICN to LAX, SFO, and a few others. Two engines with the same cargo space.

And as for NASCAR, it is mainly about the noise and the babes. Also, sometimes there are spectacular crashes.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

You blinked.

No suicide bombers, just a pilot group that has dealt with far worse than you pups for a long time.

Heyas F4H,

Absolutely. I spoke DIRECTLY with those involved with the last SLI "offer".

The "within 1/2 percent" is bovine excrement. While it's true that most were within less than 1/2 percent, what it didn't mention that this statistic EXCLUDED 600 NWA guys stapled to the bottom, because the ratio wasn't even. With the ratio they wanted to use, they ran out of DAL guys, so all the remaining NWA guys get stapled.

To their credit, our guys said "no way" (NOT the thing you'd expect a GB guy who was "in it only for himself" to do). The DAL guys like to claim that they are all for a percentage ratio, but when a PURE percentage ratio was offered, one that has NWA and DAL guys mixed at BOTH ends of the list, the DAL guys refused.

It was a crappy deal ALL around. 3 BB guys, 1 GB guy and 1 RB guy on the MC thought it was crap. ALL the guys on the MEC, who normally can't agree what color the sky is, thought it was crap.

Nuff said.

Nu

 

[Superpilot92]

We have 6 day INTL trips (up to 40 hours), and even 9 day trips for crazy people who don't like their wife or kids. We also have 1 day turns(ATL-Guatemala City-ATL), 2 day trips (Bogota, Caracas), 3 day trips worth over 20 hours (ATL--Athens, Prague, Vienna, Zurich etc), 4 day trips worth about 20 hours but with 36 hour layovers down south in warm weather---Rio, Buenos Aires, Santiago, etc) just on the INTL 767-300ER in ATL. NYC has the same, and our 767-400 (765) in ATL has plenty of great trips. The 777 in ATL has a 3 day to NRT worth 28 hours, and other trips to Shanghai, Dubai, Tel Aviv, Seoul, etc. Lot's of variety for people in ATL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

See to each their own. As far as the pensions go you guys only have higher pay because you sold out the pensions. NWA would have higher pay if they had done the same thing you guys did. So that argument doesnt add up. Plus you did get something out of it, those 2000 guys are GONE and in the end that helps. If we had the top 2000 guys bail here at nwa i could hold dc9 capt as a newhire.

 

[Superpilot92]

UPS is now parking their 742s and 741s. If they are doing it, do you think you are making such a great profit? JAL Cargo, All Nippon Cargo, Korean Air Cargo, are all parking their older 742s. Even Atlas Air is slowing disposing of them. Kalitta is keeping theirs, but they are now getting 744s. Why would those airlines be doing that? Are they just wrong? Maybe UPS doesn't make enough money?? Right? What if RA parks your 742s and replaces them with some of your 744s? That could happen, and replace the 744 routes with our 777s. Thats the rumor i have heard, and it was mentioned by some of the fleet gurus at NATCO that one of the ideas was once the 787 shows up they are considering the options of converting those 400s into freighters to increase efficiency, etc. Many Asian airlines are using 777s across the Pacific now.

And as for NASCAR, it is mainly about the noise and the babes. Also, sometimes there are spectacular crashes.Well i guess i have to go to one in person then because watching it on tv, sucks. Now i do enjoy a good drag race event every now and a gain. Talk about noise and babes!!:beer:


Bye Bye--General Lee

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