Delta and Northwest revive merger talks

[Cobraair75drvr]

Thanks nose. I have disagreed with alot of your posts the last couple of months but this is a CLASS ACT statement. Cheer to you.

That's the point. The only ones that really know anything are leadership people. The average guy at DL and NWA who works to pay the bills and goes home to play with his kids knows nothing about this. This is all being done behind the scenes. How about we treat people like we would like to be treated if we were in their shoes? I'll never vote for anything that screws my fellow employees for my own personal gain.

 

[Superpilot92]

then you can come on over, have a pay raise, and we can all hold handsI knew you're a little funny(not that there is anythng wrong with that) and go watch a NASCAR event and eat frog legs and corn dogs. Maybe you guys can bring some lutefisk.


Bye Bye--General Lee

That sounds nice but i dont know what lutefusk is? I dont live up north

 

[Occam's Razor]

Cute.

My dog is cool. Smart, loyal, and fun to be around.

But my dog doesn't think about tomorrow. My dog doesn't know how I'll react to turds on the carpet. My dog is sometimes friendly to people who would do him...and me, harm. My dog just doesn't know it, cuz my dog doesn't think about tomorrow.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I love that soundbite, I really do. Nonetheless, it is not practical. That is way too much capital investment for a single U.S. company to shoulder. With the code shares in the mix, we simply offer the single best transportation system in the world. It bothers me more that we do not address the lack of flying all of the 777s that carry the Delta code.

I would love it if we flew all of our jets, ...

I'll admit it. You are right. Lets order another bottle of that Merlot.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The DAL boys are getting nervous, and running for the lifeboats. They're trying to cut a deal with management, then use the differences between the contracts to leverage the NWA group into buying off on a DAL-designed SLI.

They sold their Scope for $$. Their strategy assumes the NWA will be forced to eat a list...or see their flying shifted, over time, to DAL pilots.

Here's the rub: That strategy is like pulling the pin on a grenade, then holding the spoon down as leverage. Unless you can keep pressure on the spoon all the time, it will blow up and kill you.

I understand the rationale behind their decision. I also understand why my dog sometimes craps in the living room.

Yes, but just because you have to hold the spoon down does not mean that you cannot decide to throw it in the direction of the opposing party.
If we joust this way, the question is, is there enough time left to throw it back before it goes boom!

Either way, if one has a grenade, both side have to take it in to account and adjust their plans accordingly.

 

[DTW320]

Actually, most of them left. I think Ed Bastian was there, though. I think Moak can see the writing on the wall, and that this merger is wanted by more people than not wanted. Should we, the larger pilot group with more "realistic" expectations, just sit and watch a stubborn Greenbook committee Chair with an agenda ruin a good outcome? No way. When your side comes to your senses about fair SLI (within .05% of your CURRENT spot), then you can come on over, have a pay raise, and we can all hold hands and go watch a NASCAR event and eat frog legs and corn dogs. Maybe you guys can bring some lutefisk.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Wow. Just....Wow. Just continue to ignore the FACTS of this situation over and over. The "fair" SLI that we should have fallen over ourselves to sign was NOT within .05%. Not even close. If it was, then ask yourself why we didn't take it. The DALPA "fair" plan would have put a ton of NWA pilots on the bottom of the combined list. Now here's the kicker: DALPA SCOPE would allow DAL to park all the DC-9's with no impact on 76 seat RJ flying. Gee Wally, let's sell them the knife that they will use to slit our throats!! Great idea! And, as if your scope wasn't bad enough, it now looks like DALPA can't wait to sell more of it for some raises. Oh well, it allows Moak to avoid arbitration. It's hilarious to watch all the deltoids here go from "Moak can shut down any merger" to "this is going to happen anyway so we have to protect ourselves (by selling our souls)".

Good luck with the picketing in MSP & DTW.

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff,

You give me some integration #s other than your "generous, fair proposal" I keep hearing about. I am a 95 hire/short bus capt. Where would I fall in your world of fair. Would I be with 95-97 hires or 2000-01? Also, if you guys go to bed with these Lorenzo clones to bust us up and we deem our transferred flying as struck work, what you gonna do??? If I am reading the media leaks and your statements correct, I think I know what you will be. Hope I am wrong and I hope your leadership can see thru what mgmt is trying to do. That is bust ALPA, period. They have busted it at Usair, and now they are using you guys to bust it here.

Ok, I don't have much more time today, but I'll give it a try here. I will state first that I have not seen any proposed seniority list, nor have I spoken to anybody who does. I have, however, spoken at length with what I consider the smartest person with numbers involved in these talks. to answer you question, I do not know where your number will fall. What I encourage, and what I hope is obvious, is to look at what is happening in the industry from a global perspective. If all you can do is look at your hire date and see that you will be junior to somebody hired after you, I cannot help you. I do not know what the proposed list looks like, but I would guess that, yes, that is the case. You will be junior to somebody who got hired after you. However, your career earnings will go up as a result of the deal. The money that this brings up front is probably now less, but is probably still there and your career is better off with the Delta deal than without it.

As for your threats of union busting, etc, I will ignore them. That, to me, is like playing the race card. You've already lost the debate if you can't find any other argument than calling people a scab. What you fail to realize is that the Delta MEC does not want it this way. They will also not be back-doored into a process that will create the same ill will as what they are covering their bases for, and which gives the Delta pilots a far more known outcome.


Please feel free to respond with relevant stuff. I understand your lack of trust with management. I don't blame you. I have the same lack of trust, and so does our MEC. Unlike his predecessors, our new CEO has come through on everything he has promised. Therefore, our MEC has rightfully adopted a trust, but verify approach rather than the usual head butt approach. If that bothers you, keep your course steady bound for the abyss, but realize that there will be repercussions. The Delta MEC has been on top of this from day 1 minus 1000 days. They have been right at every call, and they are the ones who have paved the path of forcing the involvement of organized labor within the context of a merger. They and they alone created the package of raises in this time of turmoil, which other MEC heads have now copycated in their press releases. Forgive me, but I am going with them on this one and taking their word.

 

[PuffDriver]

Cute.

My dog is cool. Smart, loyal, and fun to be around.

But my dog doesn't think about tomorrow. My dog doesn't know how I'll react to turds on the carpet. My dog is sometimes friendly to people who would do him...and me, harm. My dog just doesn't know it, cuz my dog doesn't think about tomorrow.

Are you "talking" about the NWA MEC or the Delta MEC, because I can't figure it out. I am going to guess the NWA MEC. Am I correct?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Puff: Excellent reply to Cobra.​

 

[Occam's Razor]

Are you "talking" about the NWA MEC or the Delta MEC, because I can't figure it out. I am going to guess the NWA MEC. Am I correct?

I'm referring to the DAL MEC cutting a deal with management that could be called, "Lorenzo's Baby".

I understand why they are doing it. I have no doubt there is a lot of head-nodding and harrumphing going on in ATL right now over them being "forced by NWA into crapping on the rug".

It's easy to understand.

I don't think the DAL boys quite understand it, though.

 

[General Lee]

Wow. Just....Wow. Just continue to ignore the FACTS of this situation over and over. The "fair" SLI that we should have fallen over ourselves to sign was NOT within .05%. Not even close. If it was, then ask yourself why we didn't take it. The DALPA "fair" plan would have put a ton of NWA pilots on the bottom of the combined list. Now here's the kicker: DALPA SCOPE would allow DAL to park all the DC-9's with no impact on 76 seat RJ flying. Gee Wally, let's sell them the knife that they will use to slit our throats!! Great idea! And, as if your scope wasn't bad enough, it now looks like DALPA can't wait to sell more of it for some raises. Oh well, it allows Moak to avoid arbitration. It's hilarious to watch all the deltoids here go from "Moak can shut down any merger" to "this is going to happen anyway so we have to protect ourselves (by selling our souls)".

Good luck with the picketing in MSP & DTW.

Sounds like you had BETTER get a new guy in there that will negotiate. If you want your scope clause to stay, then DO SOMETHING. Wake up, and get rid of your guy with an unrealistic agenda. You are sounding a lot like USAir Easties with "entitlement" issues. Guess what? You still have your pension, and will get a pay raise, better work rules, better bases, more widebodies, and not move down a seat. If we still had our pensions, and we didn't lose 2000 senior pilots, you and I would be lav dumpers, well, at least you would be. Be thankful, and elect a new guy that will negotiate. It is the only way for your voices to be heard. It sounds like there will be a merger regardless.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[737 Pylt]

737Pylt:

I don't get it. If I raise a concern about outsourcing and the desire to keep flying at Delta, you slam me. Not the ideas, just me personally by association with folks you despise.

No, what you raised was more of your pro rjdc rhetoric! We all know what their ideas were, you were included in those ideas. However, I thought you moved along....I guess I was wrong!

Do you want more outsourcing? Do you want ALPA to fail? Really, what is your agenda?

To kill the rjdc! They cost my union lots of $$ for nothing but a frivilous lawsuit and ideas that were based on hijacking seniority! Its been beat to death ad nauseum here! YOU were the one who said that the rjdc was being revived, remember??

I could allege you are more in bed with JoeMerchant et. al. because you align yourself with his ideas when you come after me with the torches and pitchforks. Joe and I are opposites on most issues.

And yet you were both under dan's desk over at the rjdc headquarters! You're a hypocrite fins, and its starting to show.....Maybe you should have just stayed at ASA!

In any event, you waste your time being mad at me, I'm a nobody in this process.

That's for sure. Besides, you said you were going to resign anyway, so why all the noise now? Maybe you're thinking of joining dan and jessee in their attempt to extort more money from alpa?

737

 

[~~~^~~~]

I'm referring to the DAL MEC cutting a deal with management that could be called, "Lorenzo's Baby".

Woerth had cake and drinks with the Continental Scabs (acutal scabs, not name calling) when he welcomed back into the union with no back dues. If Woerth is behind the scenes at NWA, take the time to ask him about it and watch the fish go cold while waiting for a reply.

 

[General Lee]

Ok, I don't have much more time today, but I'll give it a try here. I will state first that I have not seen any proposed seniority list, nor have I spoken to anybody who does. I have, however, spoken at length with what I consider the smartest person with numbers involved in these talks. to answer you question, I do not know where your number will fall. What I encourage, and what I hope is obvious, is to look at what is happening in the industry from a global perspective. If all you can do is look at your hire date and see that you will be junior to somebody hired after you, I cannot help you. I do not know what the proposed list looks like, but I would guess that, yes, that is the case. You will be junior to somebody who got hired after you. However, your career earnings will go up as a result of the deal. The money that this brings up front is probably now less, but is probably still there and your career is better off with the Delta deal than without it.

As for your threats of union busting, etc, I will ignore them. That, to me, is like playing the race card. You've already lost the debate if you can't find any other argument than calling people a scab. What you fail to realize is that the Delta MEC does not want it this way. They will also not be back-doored into a process that will create the same ill will as what they are covering their bases for, and which gives the Delta pilots a far more known outcome.


Please feel free to respond with relevant stuff. I understand your lack of trust with management. I don't blame you. I have the same lack of trust, and so does our MEC. Unlike his predecessors, our new CEO has come through on everything he has promised. Therefore, our MEC has rightfully adopted a trust, but verify approach rather than the usual head butt approach. If that bothers you, keep your course steady bound for the abyss, but realize that there will be repercussions. The Delta MEC has been on top of this from day 1 minus 1000 days. They have been right at every call, and they are the ones who have paved the path of forcing the involvement of organized labor within the context of a merger. They and they alone created the package of raises in this time of turmoil, which other MEC heads have now copycated in their press releases. Forgive me, but I am going with them on this one and taking their word.

That was a good post.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[737 Pylt]

Wow. Just....Wow. Just continue to ignore the FACTS of this situation over and over. The "fair" SLI that we should have fallen over ourselves to sign was NOT within .05%. Not even close. If it was, then ask yourself why we didn't take it. The DALPA "fair" plan would have put a ton of NWA pilots on the bottom of the combined list. Now here's the kicker: DALPA SCOPE would allow DAL to park all the DC-9's with no impact on 76 seat RJ flying. Gee Wally, let's sell them the knife that they will use to slit our throats!! Great idea! And, as if your scope wasn't bad enough, it now looks like DALPA can't wait to sell more of it for some raises. Oh well, it allows Moak to avoid arbitration. It's hilarious to watch all the deltoids here go from "Moak can shut down any merger" to "this is going to happen anyway so we have to protect ourselves (by selling our souls)".

Good luck with the picketing in MSP & DTW.

I'm glad to see even from behind bars Miss Cleo can gve detoilet320 all his misinformation!:laugh: :laugh:

737