Sun Country follows suit

[spinproof]

You are right in a way, but you miss the point. If an oil company could build a refinery for free, it would still lose ROI, because oil prices will go down.

As to the impossibility of building a refinery, you are wrong on that too. Did you know that a US refinery is being built as we speak? It is only going in because congress practically forced it on the oil companies during the last price spike.

And again, they could build in other countries if they chose, they just don't want to.

I didn't miss the point at all! The price of refining oil is added to the barrel price and passed on period.

So it doesn't matter to a refiner whether oil is at $10 or a $100 a barrel they still get their refining cost added.

The problem of a new refinery is economics make it impossible to make a profit(markup) because the price of new construction + meeting the regulatory cost price exceedes competing with the current refineries .
Hence no new refineries. If and until this is relaxed no one is going to play no matter if oil goes to a $150.

Although if it does the shipping cost from another country will certainly be feasible.

 

[MountainFreak]

Fair points. Refiners and producers are often not the same. But, they do work closely together and have their tentacles in each other. (Mutually assured profits).

I think more new refineries will happen, but we need an aggregate plan, including nuclear.

Good discussion, but I gotta go fly!

Good luck to Sun Country, ATA, and Champion people. And maybe to the rest of us too, we all need it.

 

[spinproof]

Fair points. Refiners and producers are often not the same. But, they do work closely together and have their tentacles in each other. (Mutually assured profits).

I think more new refineries will happen, but we need an aggregate plan, including nuclear.

Good discussion, but I gotta go fly!

Good luck to Sun Country, ATA, and Champion people. And maybe to the rest of us too, we all need it.

Agreed! Have a good one and I share your sentiments toward our fellow colleagues.

 

[tubelcane]

They can't go just anywhere though and build them. Didn't Chavez just "nationalize" about 5 billion worth of assets of the oil companies?

 

[gt1900]

Common guys... Its not the rifinery's.... Oil was in the 70's less then a year ago, and there weren't anyless or more refinery's as there are now. Remember, oil is traded in dollars. The lower the dollar, the more expensive the oil. Throw ontop of that the old supply and demand equasion, and also speculation, and you have $100+ a barrel oil... As far as supply and demand goes. I just read several articles that said supply and demand would equal oil in the $70-$80 a barrel range. Until we get the value of the dollar up, were all really screwed...

 

[atpcliff]

Hi.

Sorry to hear about Sun Country.

USA Jet is hiring, and we especially need DC-9 guys. Starting pay is $39K/year. If you have the hours, Falcon capt upgrade is about 6 months, and DC-9 capt should come down to about 2 years.

We have two bids out now for DC-9 capt, with only 6 elligible pilots.

If U want a lot of info, PM me.

cliff
GRB

 

[Beetle007]

Hi.

Sorry to hear about Sun Country.

USA Jet is hiring, and we especially need DC-9 guys. Starting pay is $39K/year. If you have the hours, Falcon capt upgrade is about 6 months, and DC-9 capt should come down to about 2 years.

We have two bids out now for DC-9 capt, with only 6 elligible pilots.

If U want a lot of info, PM me.

cliff
GRB

what defines being elligible

 

[gromgutten]

I don't know how the setup is at Sun Country. Does this mean downgrading Captains to FO's or will there be another solution?

 

[MINIME]

I need to expand a bit on the oil comments. Some of the price of oil is true supply demand, but as we all know much is speculation based. We all see that bad news drives prices up, but no or good news doesn't bring it down as much.

It is much like the diamond business- prices stay high on the PERCEPTION of scarcity as much as reality.

So, a new refinery is bad for an oil company. Even if in theory it could produce more oil which is still sold at a profit, the risk to the oil company is that prices will fall too much based on the perception that new refined crude is finally available. Lots of potential downside, few upsides. Plus, it would cost lots of money regulation or no regulation.

They are good businessmen, and they know their market. Too bad the airlines, and all of us are taking the hit.

One other note: the low interests rates are dropping the dollar, another reason oil is going up, totally separate from the refining issue.

Very good explanation as far as I'm concerned. NOTHING or NOBODY is stopping these oil companies from building refineries. They simply don't want to. They want to bottleneck production to keep prices high. Thus far it's working.

Add to that, the Fed pumping about 800 billion of unbacked money into the economy in the way of bailouts and interest rate declines. Now we have a dollar that's devaluating by the day it seems. Pretty soon a coke will cost 3 dollars a can! The elites are bailing each other out. All the while, leaving regular folks with the bill.

 

[Crossky]

I thought this thread was about SunCountry.

Oh well, since we're on the creep, let's talk about the real SunCountry, er, I mean Iraq, where the easily accesible, HUGE deposits of oil are.

Everyone knows that the reason we are really in Iraq is to control the oil that comes out of there, and for US and Euro oil companies to profit from it in PSA's (production sharing agreements). It is the large Elephant in the room that no one is talking about, we talk about the high price of gas instead.

Iraq hasn't been able to increase production substantially enough to counter the increase in worldwide demand and control prices because (1) The Iraqi National Congress hasn't passed the Oil Law (stipulates and boilerplates the PSA's) and (2) The oil piplines, wells, and other equipment infrastructure are sabatoged frequently by insurgents, preventing an increase in production.

Demand won't go down, and supply won't go up until this Oil Law (one of the 'benchmarks', originally written under the 'guidance' of major US oil companies) is revised and passed, and the oil production infrastructure is secure and protected. This won't happen under a Republican administration IMO. We need an Oil Law that favors Iraq and it's people more ('oil revenues will pay for rebuilding Iraq', right?) and contracted civilian troops (did I write that?) protecting the oil production infrastructure, and a stable government as well.

This is tough info to swallow, you won't find it on CNN. This info is what the internet is for folks.

Instead of enduring the price of this war, the lies that have been perpetuated, and the loss of our country's reputation and respect, it would have been much easier to make Sadaam our friend again, and buy our oil from him (like we do from Saudi Arabia) while our Halliburton buddies help them increase production. He wouldn't have gouged the world, he would've been happy for the business.

 

[schafjet]

I don't know how the setup is at Sun Country. Does this mean downgrading Captains to FO's or will there be another solution?

Captains downgraded to F/O. Pretty soon our entire pilot list will be Captain qualified and experienced.

 

[gromgutten]

Right on Crossky! You have seen the big picture.

 

[flyboyike]

Captains downgraded to F/O. Pretty soon our entire pilot list will be Captain qualified and experienced.

This sucks monkeybutt. SY's pilot group has to be one of the most long-suffering ones out there.

 

[Max Powers]

Its hilarious when you see the like of Spinproof, shrek, inline and the like talk> They make no sense and really think ALPA is all to blame.

Then you hear the voice of reason>They sensibly point to objectively verifiable facts to make a supposition which is entirely correct.

And the facts are BUSH and his narrow minded administration is to blame.

Look we need some brave actions to change people behaviors. Put a large gas tax out there for private automobiles. Gas at 8 dollars whould actually be gas at 2 dollar when you compare a Turbo diesel eocono box compared to a Yunkon SUV. Therefore bring down demand and airlines get to buy cheaper gas.

 

[Shrek]

Its hilarious when you see the like of Spinproof, shrek, inline and the like talk> They make no sense and really think ALPA is all to blame.

Then you hear the voice of reason>They sensibly point to objectively verifiable facts to make a supposition which is entirely correct.

And the facts are BUSH and his narrow minded administration is to blame.

Look we need some brave actions to change people behaviors. Put a large gas tax out there for private automobiles. Gas at 8 dollars whould actually be gas at 2 dollar when you compare a Turbo diesel eocono box compared to a Yunkon SUV. Therefore bring down demand and airlines get to buy cheaper gas.

I have never even HINTED that ALPA is to blame goofball..............

carry on