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schafjet

Osama hunter
Joined
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Blaming fuel costs, Sun Country to idle 29 percent of its pilots

By John Welbes
[email protected]
Article Last Updated: 04/01/2008 03:12:37 PM CDT



Sun Country Airlines will lay off nearly 30 percent of its pilots starting May 1 in response to rising fuel costs.

The Mendota Heights-based low-cost carrier sent out letters to its pilots last Friday, telling them of the temporary move, said Wendy Blackshaw, an airline spokeswoman.

"We are not going to be flying as much this summer because of rising fuel prices," Blackshaw said today. The company has 156 pilots, and 45 received the letters sent out last week.

"They won't fly at all" from May until the end of October, she said, but will continue to accrue seniority. The 45 pilots are expected to be back on Oct. 31, she said.

"We very much regret having to take this action, both from the personal impact on pilots and their families but for the airline," the carrier said in a statement this afternoon. "This represents a deep pool of talent."

Sun Country is structuring the cut flights to keep passenger service close to what it is now, she said. "The flights we've taken out are primarily the ones that weren't as profitable," she said. "We haven't eliminated any routes."
Might Sun Country passengers notice that the remaining flights are little more full than they had been?

"If we cancel a red-eye to L.A., the hope is that someone would take the daytime flight to L.A.," she said, and they might notice more full seats on that flight, she said.

Major carriers, including Northwest, have also indicated they'll likely cut flights in the coming months to adjust to rising fuel costs. Champion Air, a Twin Cities charter carrier, said Monday it will cease operations May 31. That move will affect 550 workers.
 
Blaming fuel costs, Sun Country to idle 29 percent of its pilots

By John Welbes
[email protected]
Article Last Updated: 04/01/2008 03:12:37 PM CDT



Sun Country Airlines will lay off nearly 30 percent of its pilots starting May 1 in response to rising fuel costs.

The Mendota Heights-based low-cost carrier sent out letters to its pilots last Friday, telling them of the temporary move, said Wendy Blackshaw, an airline spokeswoman.

"We are not going to be flying as much this summer because of rising fuel prices," Blackshaw said today. The company has 156 pilots, and 45 received the letters sent out last week.

"They won't fly at all" from May until the end of October, she said, but will continue to accrue seniority. The 45 pilots are expected to be back on Oct. 31, she said.

"We very much regret having to take this action, both from the personal impact on pilots and their families but for the airline," the carrier said in a statement this afternoon. "This represents a deep pool of talent."

Sun Country is structuring the cut flights to keep passenger service close to what it is now, she said. "The flights we've taken out are primarily the ones that weren't as profitable," she said. "We haven't eliminated any routes."
Might Sun Country passengers notice that the remaining flights are little more full than they had been?

"If we cancel a red-eye to L.A., the hope is that someone would take the daytime flight to L.A.," she said, and they might notice more full seats on that flight, she said.

Major carriers, including Northwest, have also indicated they'll likely cut flights in the coming months to adjust to rising fuel costs. Champion Air, a Twin Cities charter carrier, said Monday it will cease operations May 31. That move will affect 550 workers.

That sucks. Many of those junior pilots were recalled recently - right? I thought some of them also came over from Mesaba.

As someone else said on another thread, the US leisure markets (that are served by Sun Country) are likely to be packed with both US and European visitors this summer because of the high costs of traveling abroad (high exchange rates make Europe way too expensive). Too bad many airlines can't last long enough to enjoy those full seats this summer... Good luck to those pilots!
 
This is going to be a really, really bad summer.
 
Wow another ALPO carrier. I guess thats what "taking it(in the) back" really means?:(
 
Wow another ALPO carrier. I guess thats what "taking it(in the) back" really means?:(

Tool. Yeah it is alpa's fault for a slowing economy and out of control oil prices. This was caused by a republican administration, not Alpa.
 
Tool. Yeah it is alpa's fault for a slowing economy and out of control oil prices. This was caused by a republican administration, not Alpa.
Right! take another hit off that ALPO pipe sonny. You may get lucky and survive this....But just in case you don't no need to worry ALPO Will!
 
Tool. Yeah it is alpa's fault for a slowing economy and out of control oil prices. This was caused by a republican administration, not Alpa.


What? It's Bush's fault? You forgot to blame Haliburton too. That's your great satan to you liberals. Rising oil prices? Pin most of the blame on democrats and their tree hugger buddies. It's democrats who have thrown up roadblocks to develop new oil fields in the U.S. It's democrats who have killed any new refinery being built in the U.S. since 1976. Get a clue.
 
What? It's Bush's fault? You forgot to blame Haliburton too. That's your great satan to you liberals. Rising oil prices? Pin most of the blame on democrats and their tree hugger buddies. It's democrats who have thrown up roadblocks to develop new oil fields in the U.S. It's democrats who have killed any new refinery being built in the U.S. since 1976. Get a clue.

Pleny of blame to go around, but I know this for a fact (have family that in the oil business in positions that would know):

There are no new refineries in the US because the oil companies DO NOT WANT THEM! Not because of tree-huggers, not because of regulation, not because of the Dems.

There is simply no incentive; why spend lots of money to build a refinery which will only increase supply of useable fuel, bring prices down, and thus lower your profits?

There are no insurmountable restrictions on building new refineries in the US, and even if there were Exxon could build them right over the border in Mexico if they wanted them badly enough.
 
Pleny of blame to go around, but I know this for a fact (have family that in the oil business in positions that would know):

There are no new refineries in the US because the oil companies DO NOT WANT THEM! Not because of tree-huggers, not because of regulation, not because of the Dems.

There is simply no incentive; why spend lots of money to build a refinery which will only increase supply of useable fuel, bring prices down, and thus lower your profits?

There are no insurmountable restrictions on building new refineries in the US, and even if there were Exxon could build them right over the border in Mexico if they wanted them badly enough.

Yeah right! Building a new refinery is on the same par as building a new nuclear plant! Overregulated and priced out of reason.
The reason no one wants to do so is that to get a return on your investment makes the project itself unfeasible.
 
You are right in a way, but you miss the point. If an oil company could build a refinery for free, it would still lose ROI, because oil prices will go down.

As to the impossibility of building a refinery, you are wrong on that too. Did you know that a US refinery is being built as we speak? It is only going in because congress practically forced it on the oil companies during the last price spike.

And again, they could build in other countries if they chose, they just don't want to.



Yeah right! Building a new refinery is on the same par as building a new nuclear plant! Overregulated and priced out of reason.
The reason no one wants to do so is that to get a return on your investment makes the project itself unfeasible.
 
I need to expand a bit on the oil comments. Some of the price of oil is true supply demand, but as we all know much is speculation based. We all see that bad news drives prices up, but no or good news doesn't bring it down as much.

It is much like the diamond business- prices stay high on the PERCEPTION of scarcity as much as reality.

So, a new refinery is bad for an oil company. Even if in theory it could produce more oil which is still sold at a profit, the risk to the oil company is that prices will fall too much based on the perception that new refined crude is finally available. Lots of potential downside, few upsides. Plus, it would cost lots of money regulation or no regulation.

They are good businessmen, and they know their market. Too bad the airlines, and all of us are taking the hit.

One other note: the low interests rates are dropping the dollar, another reason oil is going up, totally separate from the refining issue.
 
You are right in a way, but you miss the point. If an oil company could build a refinery for free, it would still lose ROI, because oil prices will go down.

As to the impossibility of building a refinery, you are wrong on that too. Did you know that a US refinery is being built as we speak? It is only going in because congress practically forced it on the oil companies during the last price spike.

And again, they could build in other countries if they chose, they just don't want to.
I didn't miss the point at all! The price of refining oil is added to the barrel price and passed on period.

So it doesn't matter to a refiner whether oil is at $10 or a $100 a barrel they still get their refining cost added.

The problem of a new refinery is economics make it impossible to make a profit(markup) because the price of new construction + meeting the regulatory cost price exceedes competing with the current refineries .
Hence no new refineries. If and until this is relaxed no one is going to play no matter if oil goes to a $150.

Although if it does the shipping cost from another country will certainly be feasible.
 
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Fair points. Refiners and producers are often not the same. But, they do work closely together and have their tentacles in each other. (Mutually assured profits).

I think more new refineries will happen, but we need an aggregate plan, including nuclear.

Good discussion, but I gotta go fly!

Good luck to Sun Country, ATA, and Champion people. And maybe to the rest of us too, we all need it.
 
Fair points. Refiners and producers are often not the same. But, they do work closely together and have their tentacles in each other. (Mutually assured profits).

I think more new refineries will happen, but we need an aggregate plan, including nuclear.

Good discussion, but I gotta go fly!

Good luck to Sun Country, ATA, and Champion people. And maybe to the rest of us too, we all need it.

Agreed! Have a good one and I share your sentiments toward our fellow colleagues.
 
They can't go just anywhere though and build them. Didn't Chavez just "nationalize" about 5 billion worth of assets of the oil companies?
 
Common guys... Its not the rifinery's.... Oil was in the 70's less then a year ago, and there weren't anyless or more refinery's as there are now. Remember, oil is traded in dollars. The lower the dollar, the more expensive the oil. Throw ontop of that the old supply and demand equasion, and also speculation, and you have $100+ a barrel oil... As far as supply and demand goes. I just read several articles that said supply and demand would equal oil in the $70-$80 a barrel range. Until we get the value of the dollar up, were all really screwed...
 
Hi.

Sorry to hear about Sun Country.

USA Jet is hiring, and we especially need DC-9 guys. Starting pay is $39K/year. If you have the hours, Falcon capt upgrade is about 6 months, and DC-9 capt should come down to about 2 years.

We have two bids out now for DC-9 capt, with only 6 elligible pilots.

If U want a lot of info, PM me.

cliff
GRB
 
Hi.

Sorry to hear about Sun Country.

USA Jet is hiring, and we especially need DC-9 guys. Starting pay is $39K/year. If you have the hours, Falcon capt upgrade is about 6 months, and DC-9 capt should come down to about 2 years.

We have two bids out now for DC-9 capt, with only 6 elligible pilots.

If U want a lot of info, PM me.

cliff
GRB

what defines being elligible
 
I don't know how the setup is at Sun Country. Does this mean downgrading Captains to FO's or will there be another solution?
 
I need to expand a bit on the oil comments. Some of the price of oil is true supply demand, but as we all know much is speculation based. We all see that bad news drives prices up, but no or good news doesn't bring it down as much.

It is much like the diamond business- prices stay high on the PERCEPTION of scarcity as much as reality.

So, a new refinery is bad for an oil company. Even if in theory it could produce more oil which is still sold at a profit, the risk to the oil company is that prices will fall too much based on the perception that new refined crude is finally available. Lots of potential downside, few upsides. Plus, it would cost lots of money regulation or no regulation.

They are good businessmen, and they know their market. Too bad the airlines, and all of us are taking the hit.

One other note: the low interests rates are dropping the dollar, another reason oil is going up, totally separate from the refining issue.

Very good explanation as far as I'm concerned. NOTHING or NOBODY is stopping these oil companies from building refineries. They simply don't want to. They want to bottleneck production to keep prices high. Thus far it's working.

Add to that, the Fed pumping about 800 billion of unbacked money into the economy in the way of bailouts and interest rate declines. Now we have a dollar that's devaluating by the day it seems. Pretty soon a coke will cost 3 dollars a can! The elites are bailing each other out. All the while, leaving regular folks with the bill.
 
I thought this thread was about SunCountry.

Oh well, since we're on the creep, let's talk about the real SunCountry, er, I mean Iraq, where the easily accesible, HUGE deposits of oil are.

Everyone knows that the reason we are really in Iraq is to control the oil that comes out of there, and for US and Euro oil companies to profit from it in PSA's (production sharing agreements). It is the large Elephant in the room that no one is talking about, we talk about the high price of gas instead.

Iraq hasn't been able to increase production substantially enough to counter the increase in worldwide demand and control prices because (1) The Iraqi National Congress hasn't passed the Oil Law (stipulates and boilerplates the PSA's) and (2) The oil piplines, wells, and other equipment infrastructure are sabatoged frequently by insurgents, preventing an increase in production.

Demand won't go down, and supply won't go up until this Oil Law (one of the 'benchmarks', originally written under the 'guidance' of major US oil companies) is revised and passed, and the oil production infrastructure is secure and protected. This won't happen under a Republican administration IMO. We need an Oil Law that favors Iraq and it's people more ('oil revenues will pay for rebuilding Iraq', right?) and contracted civilian troops (did I write that?) protecting the oil production infrastructure, and a stable government as well.

This is tough info to swallow, you won't find it on CNN. This info is what the internet is for folks.

Instead of enduring the price of this war, the lies that have been perpetuated, and the loss of our country's reputation and respect, it would have been much easier to make Sadaam our friend again, and buy our oil from him (like we do from Saudi Arabia) while our Halliburton buddies help them increase production. He wouldn't have gouged the world, he would've been happy for the business.
 
I don't know how the setup is at Sun Country. Does this mean downgrading Captains to FO's or will there be another solution?


Captains downgraded to F/O. Pretty soon our entire pilot list will be Captain qualified and experienced.
 
Captains downgraded to F/O. Pretty soon our entire pilot list will be Captain qualified and experienced.

This sucks monkeybutt. SY's pilot group has to be one of the most long-suffering ones out there.
 
Its hilarious when you see the like of Spinproof, shrek, inline and the like talk> They make no sense and really think ALPA is all to blame.

Then you hear the voice of reason>They sensibly point to objectively verifiable facts to make a supposition which is entirely correct.

And the facts are BUSH and his narrow minded administration is to blame.

Look we need some brave actions to change people behaviors. Put a large gas tax out there for private automobiles. Gas at 8 dollars whould actually be gas at 2 dollar when you compare a Turbo diesel eocono box compared to a Yunkon SUV. Therefore bring down demand and airlines get to buy cheaper gas.
 
Its hilarious when you see the like of Spinproof, shrek, inline and the like talk> They make no sense and really think ALPA is all to blame.

Then you hear the voice of reason>They sensibly point to objectively verifiable facts to make a supposition which is entirely correct.

And the facts are BUSH and his narrow minded administration is to blame.

Look we need some brave actions to change people behaviors. Put a large gas tax out there for private automobiles. Gas at 8 dollars whould actually be gas at 2 dollar when you compare a Turbo diesel eocono box compared to a Yunkon SUV. Therefore bring down demand and airlines get to buy cheaper gas.

I have never even HINTED that ALPA is to blame goofball..............

carry on
 
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