New CAL System Bid?????

[Ex737Driver]

Cal management has now moved further into the contract playbook with it's latest memo. According to the GUM CPO, there is now a good chance for a MAY system bid. While no information has been given, it would seem to follow right along with their previous attempts to lower the pilots groups expectations for contect 08. See thread

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=110972

This latest memo was comes on the heels of the memo that VRF, voluntary reduced flying, would be available for all bases, all aircraft, and all seats for the MAY bid.

I fully expect the bid to have CAL parking multiple aircraft, the reduction of required captains in each base and aircraft, and the threat of furloughs. While the bid is nothing more than a page from the "gloom and doom" management handbook, I would expect that the possibility of future growth becoming "nil" for the foreseeable future (excluding intl). We continue to take new aircraft at the rate of 2-3 a month and will see an increase in the removal of older aircraft like the 737-500 and -300.

The BS is starting to flow like cheap wine............

 

[motch]

Maybe in the old days that playbook would have worked.
In the new modern world.. doesn't take alot to see that we are still slightly understaffed.. Have new aircraft arriving at a better pace than old aircraft are leaving and that with the latest news from the industry shows that while it is bad news that other airlines are reducing capactiy.. we can stay at status quo and weather out this storm.

 

[pkober]

This is when we need strong union leadership. They need to assure the pilots that this is just more scare tactics and to stand tough. We won't furlough and the union need to be proactive and fight back against these scare tactics.

 

[geshields]

Why is everyone in the mode that they think this will be a reduction bid?

 

[cal73cap]

Maybe some ex ATA b757-300s. Since we are one of the few airlines operating them. And pref-interviews for the ATA guys when we start hiring!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

NWA does too.

 

[motch]

The Union doesn't need to assure me, know why...

I am the union. My fellow pilots are the union.

Again, in the old days this type of intimadation may have worked.. not so much anymore!

And I'm glad to hear that we (CAL ALPA & MANAGEMENT) are extending the jumpseat to our fellow brothers and sisters during this time of uncertainty for them along with preferential interviewing once we start up again.

Always
Motch

PS> I agree.. why the though of down bids and reduction.. could be the other way or just that the bid is coming out a month early.. doesn't in usually come out in June?

PPS> And it's only a blurb from the CP of Guam... lets wait and see!

 

[imadumbpilot]

PPS> And it's only a blurb from the CP of Guam... lets wait and see!

It always seems to me that the most unreliable information comes from the CP's office.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Why is everyone in the mode that they think this will be a reduction bid?

Simply because mgmt has a playbook and they seem to be following it to the letter. I would expect nothing else from a mgmt team that got 52% of our pilots to vote for POS 02.

 

[whymeworry?]

Actually, our bids usually come out in August. Contracturally 2 per year spaced no more than 8 mos apart. So the Jan bid is usually followed by the Aug bid. May is quite early for a bid to be coming out. Then again, we did order a bunch of 777s that weren't on the last bid and Shanghai starts up next year. Those aircraft will have to be on this next bid or we simply won't have the staffing for these triples since the bids are effective one year out. I'm betting it's a flat bid. Parking some aircraft but getting enough to offset.

 

[pkober]

The Union doesn't need to assure me, know why...

I am the union. My fellow pilots are the union.

Again, in the old days this type of intimadation may have worked.. not so much anymore!

And I'm glad to hear that we (CAL ALPA & MANAGEMENT) are extending the jumpseat to our fellow brothers and sisters during this time of uncertainty for them along with preferential interviewing once we start up again.

Always
Motch

PS> I agree.. why the though of down bids and reduction.. could be the other way or just that the bid is coming out a month early.. doesn't in usually come out in June?

PPS> And it's only a blurb from the CP of Guam... lets wait and see!

The point is that the union needs to be in front of events like this. They need to be a step ahead of management on all issues.

I don't need the union to hold my hand. I'm not worried. However, true leadership is proactive not reactive.

 

[Jetjockey]

The Union doesn't need to assure me, know why...

I am the union. My fellow pilots are the union.

Someone here gets it.

 

[Patriot328]

I'm glad ALPA was able to get the Age 65 ruling passed so we could stagnate the several hundred retirements we were supposed to have this year. All that did was fuel the threat of furlough....

 

[whymeworry?]

I'm glad ALPA was able to get the Age 65 ruling passed so we could stagnate the several hundred retirements we were supposed to have this year. All that did was fuel the threat of furlough....

Your blame needs to rest with 3 entities:

1) The ALPA Exec BOD (all the MEC Chairs at the time of that vote last summer).
2) APAAD
3) Ignorant Congressmen and women and their Senate counterparts.

But don't worry. They have all assured me that we will all now have 5 more years to make up the financial hit. Think you're angry now, wait until furloughs set in.

 

[catIIIc]

NWA does too.

Not Rolls powered. I don't think we will getting these A/C anyway, I think they will stay with the holding company at North American.

 

[Andy]

Your blame needs to rest with 3 entities:

1) The ALPA Exec BOD (all the MEC Chairs at the time of that vote last summer).
2) APAAD
3) Ignorant Congressmen and women and their Senate counterparts.

But don't worry. They have all assured me that we will all now have 5 more years to make up the financial hit. Think you're angry now, wait until furloughs set in.

Yeah, but the bulk of the blame lies with #1.
#2 made just enough noise so that Congress paid them lip service and went through the motions, but were going to leave age change legislation locked up in subcommittee.
#3 relied on the counsel of #1.

But you can be assured that alpo will blame the furloughs on airline management, in spite of it being a matter of economic survival.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Ya, and I bet that was after "snake charmer chunky" Prater gave the speech of his lifetime about some greedy bastard, blah, blah blah, fellas the only fix is a change of the age. No matter that the MAJORITY voted against. ALPA PAC will get NOTHING till chunky's gone, with an apology.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Ya, and I bet that was after "snake charmer chunky" Prater gave the speech of his lifetime about some greedy bastard, blah, blah blah, fellas the only fix is a change of the age. No matter that the MAJORITY voted against. ALPA PAC will get NOTHING till chunky's gone, with an apology.

Chunky. Brilliant. Now that is funny!

 

[minrest]

This latest memo was comes on the heels of the memo that VRF, voluntary reduced flying, would be available for all bases, all aircraft, and all seats for the MAY bid.
.

Where is there a memo concerning a new system bid? The source of this rumor is a voice mail by the GUM CP.

 

[Kugelblitz]

Chunky. Brilliant. Now that is funny!

About 2 months ago, Prater was in the pilots' lounge in EWR and he was spouting off about not letting management use PBS to leverage us. He said remember the quality of life issues....... I pointed out that if over 50% of the bidding population were going to get a line that completely ignores their bidding parameters ( i.e days off, max hours, etc.) and will 'award' a line of 90+ hours that there isn't much left with quality of life.

I then had to explain to him what a 'splat line' was and other basic aspects of our current PBS system. Clearly, Prater has never had to even deal with our current bidding system on a personal level.

That is our in-touch leadership........

 

[flygirlqt]

Ya, and I bet that was after "snake charmer chunky" Prater gave the speech of his lifetime about some greedy bastard, blah, blah blah, fellas the only fix is a change of the age. No matter that the MAJORITY voted against. ALPA PAC will get NOTHING till chunky's gone, with an apology.

That is funny

 

[densoo]

Scott Adams gets it

Dilbert 4/8/8
http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2091688080408.gif

 

[Flopgut]

About 2 months ago, Prater was in the pilots' lounge in EWR and he was spouting off about not letting management use PBS to leverage us. He said remember the quality of life issues....... I pointed out that if over 50% of the bidding population were going to get a line that completely ignores their bidding parameters ( i.e days off, max hours, etc.) and will 'award' a line of 90+ hours that there isn't much left with quality of life.

I then had to explain to him what a 'splat line' was and other basic aspects of our current PBS system. Clearly, Prater has never had to even deal with our current bidding system on a personal level.

That is our in-touch leadership........

Right on! Interestingly, you can get him to talk Crewpass?! Full page ad in USAToday?? Oh, he's in touch all right. I barely see my family and he's worried about taking his shoes off??

Prater is not equiped to take care of all of us in this profession. What he really means to say is: he won't let the company, and the bottom half of the list, leverage PBS against him taking care of the top half.

The loan is no longer due I'm afraid. It was due, and then Pratard changed retirement age. There would be a durable pilot shortage pushing things along if it weren't for him. Even with fuel and these recent shutdowns, pilots would be in demand. Here's what's going to happen IMHO: The need for pilots will return in about 24-36 months, and it will be an even greater than before. F-ing Prater & company are going to lament this and seek to cash in on it again. It will be with foriegn control, or cabotage, or something like that...He'll want to pull the ladder up again. We have got to put a damper on this recent windfall his crowd took. I say we shore up scope (capture the 170/190), seek an incremental raise for junior pilots, and leave the top half of the list high and dry (let's lower their pay!?). Sign a two year deal and get back to this in earnest when demand comes back.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

I'd sign that today!

 

[Andy]

The loan is no longer due I'm afraid. It was due, and then Pratard changed retirement age. There would be a durable pilot shortage pushing things along if it weren't for him. Even with fuel and these recent shutdowns, pilots would be in demand. Here's what's going to happen IMHO: The need for pilots will return in about 24-36 months, and it will be an even greater than before. F-ing Prater & company are going to lament this and seek to cash in on it again. It will be with foriegn control, or cabotage, or something like that...He'll want to pull the ladder up again. We have got to put a damper on this recent windfall his crowd took.

First off, I'd like to commend you on coining the term pratard. But should it ever be capitalized???

As for 24-36 months, I think you're buying into that BS that pilots will retire at 62. No freaking way. It's 65. Unless, of course, they get it changed to 67. And then unlimited. That's how they'll pull up the ladder again.

 

[Flopgut]

Thanks Andy! Oh, I most definitly agree, many will want 68 or 70 or whatever. I was talking about CAL pilots only. Decades of morbidly bad work rules have left CAL, without a doubt, the least healthy pilot group in the world. They just aren't going to last that long. Even the seniority they've coveted from others won't insulate them from the dirth of QOL issues that prevail at CAL. Without a doubt, if you put age 60+ pilots below the CAL splat line (in any fleet), 24-36 months would go to 12 months.

 

[densoo]

Thanks Andy! Oh, I most definitly agree, many will want 68 or 70 or whatever. I was talking about CAL pilots only. Decades of morbidly bad work rules have left CAL, without a doubt, the least healthy pilot group in the world. They just aren't going to last that long. Even the seniority they've coveted from others won't insulate them from the dirth of QOL issues that prevail at CAL. Without a doubt, if you put age 60+ pilots below the CAL splat line (in any fleet), 24-36 months would go to 12 months.

Well, it's paid for. New LTD rate is $1.72/$100 vice the old $1/$100 and, according the jointly signed letter, it is the younger pilots' fault for needing to be covered longer.

 

[Flopgut]

Ask Prater's group--it's all the younger pilots' fault!

 

[Captain X]

Where is there a memo concerning a new system bid? The source of this rumor is a voice mail by the GUM CP.

Yeah, and if anyone has an official source for the rumor that CAL is getting four 757-300's via Boeing from ATA.

 

[Andy]

Thanks Andy! Oh, I most definitly agree, many will want 68 or 70 or whatever. I was talking about CAL pilots only. Decades of morbidly bad work rules have left CAL, without a doubt, the least healthy pilot group in the world. They just aren't going to last that long. Even the seniority they've coveted from others won't insulate them from the dirth of QOL issues that prevail at CAL. Without a doubt, if you put age 60+ pilots below the CAL splat line (in any fleet), 24-36 months would go to 12 months.

Splat line - is that the point below which PBS assigns all lineholders max time? And I'll assume that the trips are also pretty crappy?

I hope that the reserves are listening to Floyd in crew scheduling and aggressively picking up nice trips; Floyd says that makes reserve pilots' lives easy. http://interlinerates.blogspot.com/2007/04/india-crew-scheduling.html