Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Delta and Northwest revive merger talks

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Mr.B

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
365
Too much $$$$$ to be had to allow those pesky pilots to call the shots. Guaranteed.

Delta and Northwest revive merger talks


By Justin Baer and Francesco Guerrera in New York
Financial Times
Sunday Apr 6 2008 12:45

Delta Air Lines (DAL) and Northwest Airlines (NWAC) , two US airlines seeking to add scale in the face of a brutal industry-wide downturn, have revived their talks to merge, people familiar with the talks said.

Record fuel costs, competition and ebbing demand has ended the US industry's modest recovery, forcing carriers to slash flight schedules, park aircraft and impose fees on passengers. In the past week, three low-cost airlines - Aloha Airgroup, ATA Airlines and SkyBus - shut down operations.

Delta and Northwest had inched close to an agreement in February. Those negotiations stalled when their pilot unions failed to find common ground on how to rank members by seniority, which determines pay, rank and aircraft flown.

Executives at Minnesota-based Northwest have since put pressure on their counterparts at Delta to proceed without the pilots' support.

Delta's board members, who convened a meeting late last week to discuss the company's options, agreed to press ahead with negotiations, the people said. Those talks are now intensifying, with the two sides set to meet again this week, they said.

Delta and Northwest declined to comment.

As part of the previous talks, the two carriers agreed to swap Northwest shares for those of Delta at little or no premium, appoint Richard Anderson, Delta's chief executive, as the combined company's chief executive and keep the headquarters in Delta's hometown of Atlanta, the people said.

They also hammered out a new, $2bn labour accord that would have given pilots pay raises and a 5 per cent equity stake in a combined company.

But by late February, the two labour groups broke off negotiations without agreement. Representatives from each union met again in March to no avail, and Delta's pilots rejected the Northwest union's proposal to seek arbitration for a solution to the seniority stalemate.

Delta's public assurances that it would not proceed with any deal that would sacrifice job security and seniority benefits, along with the pilots' impasse, appeared to thwart the two airlines' plans. The companies had sought to line up the pilots' accord to help avoid the acrimony and protracted negotiations that often slows down airlines' effort to integrate.

The industry's outlook has since darkened, forcing Delta's executives and board members to consider leaving negotiations with the pilots until after they reach an agreement to merge.

Delta and Northwest each recently announced plans to trim domestic capacity, reducing the size of their fleets, to reduce costs.
 
Too much $$$$$ to be had to allow those pesky pilots to call the shots. Guaranteed.

Delta and Northwest revive merger talks


By Justin Baer and Francesco Guerrera in New York
Financial Times
Sunday Apr 6 2008 12:45

Delta Air Lines (DAL) and Northwest Airlines (NWAC) , two US airlines seeking to add scale in the face of a brutal industry-wide downturn, have revived their talks to merge, people familiar with the talks said.

Record fuel costs, competition and ebbing demand has ended the US industry's modest recovery, forcing carriers to slash flight schedules, park aircraft and impose fees on passengers. In the past week, three low-cost airlines - Aloha Airgroup, ATA Airlines and SkyBus - shut down operations.

Delta and Northwest had inched close to an agreement in February. Those negotiations stalled when their pilot unions failed to find common ground on how to rank members by seniority, which determines pay, rank and aircraft flown.

Executives at Minnesota-based Northwest have since put pressure on their counterparts at Delta to proceed without the pilots' support.

Delta's board members, who convened a meeting late last week to discuss the company's options, agreed to press ahead with negotiations, the people said. Those talks are now intensifying, with the two sides set to meet again this week, they said.

Delta and Northwest declined to comment.

As part of the previous talks, the two carriers agreed to swap Northwest shares for those of Delta at little or no premium, appoint Richard Anderson, Delta's chief executive, as the combined company's chief executive and keep the headquarters in Delta's hometown of Atlanta, the people said.

They also hammered out a new, $2bn labour accord that would have given pilots pay raises and a 5 per cent equity stake in a combined company.

But by late February, the two labour groups broke off negotiations without agreement. Representatives from each union met again in March to no avail, and Delta's pilots rejected the Northwest union's proposal to seek arbitration for a solution to the seniority stalemate.

Delta's public assurances that it would not proceed with any deal that would sacrifice job security and seniority benefits, along with the pilots' impasse, appeared to thwart the two airlines' plans. The companies had sought to line up the pilots' accord to help avoid the acrimony and protracted negotiations that often slows down airlines' effort to integrate.

The industry's outlook has since darkened, forcing Delta's executives and board members to consider leaving negotiations with the pilots until after they reach an agreement to merge.

Delta and Northwest each recently announced plans to trim domestic capacity, reducing the size of their fleets, to reduce costs.

If none of our ALPA groups can reach combined seniority list agreements are we really united? Or is it just one airlines' MEC/pilot group vs. another?
 
If none of our ALPA groups can reach combined seniority list agreements are we really united? Or is it just one airlines' MEC/pilot group vs. another?

IMHO, no. In fact my experience has been it goes one step further, junior vs. senior. Always looking out for ones own butt.
 
IMHO, no. In fact my experience has been it goes one step further, junior vs. senior. Always looking out for ones own butt.

You know I agree. We tend to look after our own interests first within our own pilot groups.

The mess at USAir/AWA, TWA/AA, now potentially at DAL/NWA, and what we've all seen in our own pilot groups show this.

I don't have the answer, but with all of this ALPA talk we've got to acknowledge that it (seniority integration) has never been done in harmony.

We pilots are selfish bastards:)
 
Alaska has been known to tell members "we are for the whole not the individuals." We have to look over our shoulders and be careful. I wish us luck in coming negotiations.....Baja,
 
I think it's only a matter of time. This deal will happen, if Wall Street and the managers have anything to say about it. Too many stars are being aligned against it not happening. It's almost like the perfect storm.

Saddly, and with all due respect, I believe history will show that this was a missed opportunity by both MECs and not coming to a positive conclusion in the time allowed. I think that some protective barriers could've been establised and some real monetary gains could've been had. Gains that we all know most times take years to obtain.

If this goes down, I hope that most MECs are planning ahead. Hopefully future mergers, (and they will happen after this one) avoid some of the obstacles that DAL/NWA encountered.
 
I think it's only a matter of time. This deal will happen, if Wall Street and the managers have anything to say about it. Too many stars are being aligned against it not happening. It's almost like the perfect storm.

Saddly, and with all due respect, I believe history will show that this was a missed opportunity by both MECs and not coming to a positive conclusion in the time allowed. I think that some protective barriers could've been establised and some real monetary gains could've been had. Gains that we all know most times take years to obtain.

If this goes down, I hope that most MECs are planning ahead. Hopefully future mergers, (and they will happen after this one) avoid some of the obstacles that DAL/NWA encountered.

What you have to remember is that Delta wants "harmony" and not what USAir has. They don't want two seperate contracts, with seperate scope clauses, and the inability to be "flexible." They may not offer as much to us, but that doesn't mean we "have to take their offer." We can stay seperate and be a headache. So, it behooves Delta to get an agreement, and they will still offer a fairly good deal. If you let them "manage your expectations", then you will be let down. Northwest threw the line "we will offer a less generous offer" to the press, in order to manage our expectations. I have heard rumors that the board was advised by Anderson that we need to have the SLI done before we will move ahead, and that puts the ONUS on NWA and their greenbook people to get more REALISTIC with their needs, since career expectations went out the window with 9-11 and age 65, along with earlier than stated DC9 parkings.

As far as being "prepared" for a merger and SLI, we were. We started two years ago with preparation, and we weren't the ones who showed up unprepared and hoping an arbitrator would just do the job for us. Nope.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Last edited:
I think it's only a matter of time. This deal will happen, if Wall Street and the managers have anything to say about it. Too many stars are being aligned against it not happening. It's almost like the perfect storm.

Saddly, and with all due respect, I believe history will show that this was a missed opportunity by both MECs and not coming to a positive conclusion in the time allowed. I think that some protective barriers could've been establised and some real monetary gains could've been had. Gains that we all know most times take years to obtain.

If this goes down, I hope that most MECs are planning ahead. Hopefully future mergers, (and they will happen after this one) avoid some of the obstacles that DAL/NWA encountered.


So our MECs screwed us... why should today be any different than the rest?
 
As far as being "prepared" for a merger and SLI, we were. We started two years ago with preparation, and we weren't the ones who showed up unprepared and hoping an arbitrator would just do the job for us. Nope.

Bye Bye--General Lee

:uzi::eek::smash:

For the love of God, give it a rest already!!!
 
The hell with SLI, DOH, arbitration, negotiation or mediation.....let's go with straight forward: DOB!!!!
 
Regarding seniority list integration factors: I was thinking it should be based on spouse's waist size.

That would ensure 737 Pylt is at the top of the list. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
Last edited:
You know I agree. We tend to look after our own interests first within our own pilot groups.

The mess at USAir/AWA, TWA/AA, now potentially at DAL/NWA, and what we've all seen in our own pilot groups show this.

I don't have the answer, but with all of this ALPA talk we've got to acknowledge that it (seniority integration) has never been done in harmony.

We pilots are selfish bastards:)



Sadly, a couple of years ago the UAW took less of a pay raise than it could have to keep 2 plants open. Of course we pilots are above all that.
 
Latest move

Executives at Minnesota-based Northwest have since put pressure on their counterparts at Delta to proceed without the pilots' support.

Delta's board members, who convened a meeting late last week to discuss the company's options, agreed to press ahead with negotiations, the people said. Those talks are now intensifying, with the two sides set to meet again this week, they said.

Squeeze play. They hope that one or both pilot groups will fear arbitration enough to cave on the list. They may be right.
 
Executives at Minnesota-based Northwest have since put pressure on their counterparts at Delta to proceed without the pilots' support.

Of what significance is that? I can't imagine anyone having less influence over Delta's board than Steenland and NWA.
 
Squeeze play. They hope that one or both pilot groups will fear arbitration enough to cave on the list. They may be right.

Well, we know one side is in love with the idea of arbitration though I can't figure out why. Piss away all the equity and contract improvements and probably end up with a list very close to the one negotiated last month. Good plan.

Arbitration may be a foregone conclusion now anyway. I see much less chance of a negotiated settlement now as both sides are going to want to protect their group from a fleet most like to be grounded in very tough economic conditions while the other side screams bloody murder.
 
Last edited:
Why, you'll be furloughed. Might as well stay asleep. LOL


You' really are an embarrassment to the XJT pilot group. Remind me again why you insist on flaming fellow XJT pilots who have moved on? Whats the matter have you run out of flames towards the CAL pilots? I would worry about yourself before you start to worry about me. Thanks for your concern though:rolleyes: TOOL
 
Last edited:
Bluffing 101

Well, we know one side is in love with the idea of arbitration though I can't figure out why.

Perhaps not as much love as is proclaimed. Negotiators always assert that a "fair" arbitrator would surely support their position, but they know it's a big risk and conceal their fears, lest they give the other side a bargaining advantage. For the same reason, both sides overstate their desire to leave carrots on the table and "go it alone". All public statements should be regarded as just part of the negotiating process.
 
Regarding seniority list integration factors: I was thinking it should be based on spouse's waist size.

That would ensure 737 Pylt is at the top of the list. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Now that's not very nice, after all, you call that person....."mom.":laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

737
 
Of what significance is that? I can't imagine anyone having less influence over Delta's board than Steenland and NWA.

That's because you don't have a brain to imagine with, numbnutz!
jke406, you use a different name, but its the same old useless info! Be careful on your asa salary, you might not be able to afford another $10
Now go sing in as jmoney you troll!

737
 
Perhaps not as much love as is proclaimed. Negotiators always assert that a "fair" arbitrator would surely support their position, but they know it's a big risk and conceal their fears, lest they give the other side a bargaining advantage. For the same reason, both sides overstate their desire to leave carrots on the table and "go it alone". All public statements should be regarded as just part of the negotiating process.

Good points, as usual. The question now is if the company still cares about a negotiated settlement or have we made ourselves irrelevant? We may still have some leverage if the company wants to avoid fences. Major fences are the most likely outcome of an arbitrated settlement considering the fleet and base differential in my opinion.
 
Last edited:
Fat Lady hasn't sung yet

Good points, as usual. The question now is if the company still cares about a negotiated settlement or have we made ourselves irrelevant?

My guess? They still want it and are willing to pay something to get it. Stock prices are up sharply on the mere rumor of renewed talks, and "they" own a lot of stock. The window of opportunity is probably still open.
 
Back to the thread.

My guess? They still want it and are willing to pay something to get it. Stock prices are up sharply on the mere rumor of renewed talks, and "they" own a lot of stock. The window of opportunity is probably still open.

Tom:
The window of opportunity is always open. Its just a matter of when the guys in charge (hedge funds) want to pull the trigger!

737
 
Sweet!

Piss off you little scared troll! Shouldn't you be at the local malls trolling after young boys! Now run along jimmy c. cornhole! Keep throwing stones behind your keyboard you chicken sh**!

737


Very nice for a retard! Most second graders have the punctuation acumen necessary to determine that the second sentence you wrote should have ended with a question mark!

I guess we will have to cut you some slack-most second graders who can write better than you are not mentally retarded.

-Tough break, there skippy!
 
Like any of this is a surprise.
Lets just start best on when we are going to be told that we are going to do it with out you....

I will echo the fact that many of the people on DAL SPC were given trip drops in about a week or so.
Dark clouds ahead....
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom