How to get out of a training contract...

[croutt]

A sucker is born everyday. The regionals write their business model on this fact. If there weren't so many "honor your word" wimps out there, these companies would pay us what we're worth and treat us as we deserve to be treated so they could retain the pilots they need. Southwest...highest paid pilots, good work rules, most profitable. Strong inhouse union that does not put up with crap.

 

[bigbird]

If you found a better job that could be the best thing for you future, then leave without thinking twice!! Do you think these airlines give a crap about us? They will drop us in a heart beat if they need to. This is business.

 

[Papps]

You may want to finish out your year(or however long that contract is for.) Looks like hiring stopped everywhere, and it will probably hurt you down the road if the people doing the hiring find out you bailed on a contract.

 

[CitationUltra]

I knew this was going to be flame bate...

This has nothing to do with being a man, or any of that crap.

The post was originally meant to determine if it's legal or not. If it's not legal contract, why pay it? Then your supporting something illegal. That's like saying to Rodney King, Get down there and take it like man!!!

One can argue that the whole purpose of first year pay is so the company can recoup there training costs. They are paying you roughly 10000 less the first year... Well what the hell is that for? Do you magically become a super pilot on your anniversary? Now your worth an extra 10 G's...

If it's legal, I’ll pay it. According to ALPA, (here we go) it's not. But they won't help a first year member.

Short answer: It's legal. Or else they wouldn't have presented it to you for signature. QX has been around a long time and has some of the best legal counsel in the industry. So trying to rely on some gimcrack theory of "duress" is not advisable.

A legitimate defense might be that the company did not hold up its end of the agreement. Unlikely, but that's one possibility.

Or you could argue that you were not mentally competent to enter into a legal contract. Probably not a good idea if you wish to continue holding a Medical Certificate.

From your post, it appears that you must have been at QX for at least part of a year. Is the contract pro-rated? If so, your obligation will be a fraction of the full amount.

 

[rtmcfi]

If it's legal, I’ll pay it. According to ALPA, (here we go) it's not. But they won't help a first year member.

Seeing how ALPA does not represent QX, what do you expect of them? Tell your boyfriend you want to try being the man for once.

 

[CitationUltra]

You guys who say pay up are 'tards! These companies take advantage of us from day one. If QOL was such that it showed an ounce or respect to the employees people wouldn't leave. They can fire at will, pilots should be able to quit at will.

There is nothing whatsoever that prevents an employee from "quitting at will". The contract simply stipulates that is you do quite "at will" (not furloughed or fired) you must pay the amount of the obligation you agreed to when you accepted the job, the training and the qualification.

 

[CitationUltra]

A sucker is born everyday. The regionals write their business model on this fact. If there weren't so many "honor your word" wimps out there, these companies would pay us what we're worth and treat us as we deserve to be treated so they could retain the pilots they need. Southwest...highest paid pilots, good work rules, most profitable. Strong inhouse union that does not put up with crap.

They also require the execution of a training bond, if memory serves.

 

[CitationUltra]

You may want to finish out your year(or however long that contract is for.) Looks like hiring stopped everywhere, and it will probably hurt you down the road if the people doing the hiring find out you bailed on a contract.

Excellent advice.

It's not just about "getting out of the contract" but what the implications are down the road that may be the higher cost.

 

[Highflight1977]

.....

 

[doh]

I haven't read any posts after the first page, so I don't know if anyone else has pointed out the obvious answer as to why you don't pay. Management NEVER HONOR'S THEIR CONTRACTS! So really, there is no obligation on your part to pay up either. Anyone who tells you otherwise is simply a management tool, and you are free to ignore management tools. You should live by management ethics: LIE, CHEAT, STEAL! NEVER DO THE RIGHT THING! ALWAYS LIE, CHEAT, STEAL! Now you have it, good luck.

 

[Highflight1977]

Seeing how ALPA does not represent QX, what do you expect of them? Tell your boyfriend you want to try being the man for once.

You... and your post.. are about as usefull as a cock flavored lollypop

Now go back to watching WWE Raw, because it's real! Really it is!

 

[CitationUltra]

I haven't read any posts after the first page, so I don't know if anyone else has pointed out the obvious answer as to why you don't pay. Management NEVER HONOR'S THEIR CONTRACTS! So really, there is no obligation on your part to pay up either. Anyone who tells you otherwise is simply a management tool, and you are free to ignore management tools. You should live by management ethics: LIE, CHEAT, STEAL! NEVER DO THE RIGHT THING! ALWAYS LIE, CHEAT, STEAL! Now you have it, good luck.

Have another drink.

 

[doh]

Have another drink.

I actually haven't been drinking, maybe that is the problem. I get a little sick and tired of tools like you telling me about ethics. I am ex CMR. Did they honor the contract they made? I will act with the same integrity as management. Please tell me why I should not follow where management leads. Shouldn't we all be "pulling in the same direction"? When I read what a-holes like you say, it makes me sick.

 

[CitationUltra]

I actually haven't been drinking, maybe that is the problem. I get a little sick and tired of tools like you telling me about ethics. I am ex CMR. Did they honor the contract they made? I will act with the same integrity as management. Please tell me why I should not follow where management leads. Shouldn't we all be "pulling in the same direction"? When I read what a-holes like you say, it makes me sick.

You do come off as being sick alright. A bitter and unprincipled loudmouth.

Setting your misspelled rant in 80-point italics doesn't command respect either, fool.

 

[Herman]

From what I know about training contracts from my friend's cousin's crashpad mate:
your situation to pay back the contract could sound something like this:
- you are willing to pay back the company the full amount you owe
- unfortunately, the added expenses of the payback puts you in financial distress (not unlikely on first year pay...but this situation could last for a long time; marriage, kid, school, another kid, new house, car, boat....).
- Until you are caught up with your financial situation, you are still willing to honor your contract and will be making monthly payments towards your debt by making a monthly "good faith" payment until you are able to pay off a bigger chunk of your debt

I believe any "good faith" payment qulifies to prove your willingness to honor your contract....I recommend somewhere between $0.01 - $1.00.

Good Luck!!!

 

[time builder]

Excellent advice.

It's not just about "getting out of the contract" but what the implications are down the road that may be the higher cost.

I'll second that. It's a very important time to keep your slate clean. If this recession is anything like the one in 2001, time as a first year RJ FO won't mean much, and you might end up crawling back to your old flight school for a job as a CFI (believe me, I saw a few go back to instructing in '01).

Suppose you do make a move and get a job, you're now at the bottom of their seniority list, and the first in line to be furloughed, heaven forbid. With a PRIA that says you've violated a contract, you might end up in a mad scramble to find a low end job just to maintain currency.

 

[knewhigher]

I was able to get Mesa to reduce what I owed them by 50%. $1500 is well worth getting out of there and getting them out of my life.

 

[NWaviator]

"You... and your post.. are about as usefull as a cock flavored lollypop"

That is one of the funniest things I have ever heard. Time to use that analogy with my mother in-law.

I talked to an ACP a couple days ago they are having 16 newhires by June all Q400. We are having healthy attrition hopefully not as much as last spring and summer. Is is Compass???? Best of luck....

 

[Captain Morgan]

Or you could go this route and make them an offer they can't refuse... QX is Teamsters right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4KRDVsSsKE

CM

 

[Highflight1977]

NW - I've been gone for a while just trying to decide if i should pay this thing or not... Looks like I probably will, it's really not worth the hassle.

 

[Mr Wu]

Legacy Carrier: "Hello QX chief pilot. I'd like to ask you about one of your former employees"

QX CP: "No problem. Which one?"

Legacy Carrier: "HighFlight1977"

QX CP: "What would you like to know?"

Legacy Carrier: "Is he eligible for rehire?"

QX CP: "No, he is not."

Legacy Carrier: "Why not?"

QX CP: "I can't discuss that with you."

 

[DrewBlows]

I'll second that. It's a very important time to keep your slate clean. If this recession is anything like the one in 2001, time as a first year RJ FO won't mean much, and you might end up crawling back to your old flight school for a job as a CFI (believe me, I saw a few go back to instructing in '01).

Suppose you do make a move and get a job, you're now at the bottom of their seniority list, and the first in line to be furloughed, heaven forbid. With a PRIA that says you've violated a contract, you might end up in a mad scramble to find a low end job just to maintain currency.

This is wrong. There are certain things a company must provide for a PRIA request, they are Pilot Performance (training/evaluation records), Disciplinary Action that Resulted in Termination of Employment, and Disciplinary Action Involving Pilot's Performance.

Though a company could provide additional information (your contract violation) they would be stupid to do so because it would open them up to legal action. The case would last about five minutes in favor of the pilot.

Attorney: "Why didn't you hire my client?"

New Company Official: "Because he failed to pay his training contract at his previous company."

Attorney: "Where did you get this information?"

NCO: "His previous company sent it with his PRIA paper work. See it's right here."

Judge: "I award lost future earnings to Plaintiff minus his training contract money. Next case."

a. Pilot Performance. Furnish records pertaining to the individual’s performance as a pilot, including:
(1) Initial and recurrent training records.
(2) Records concerning qualifications, proficiency, or professional competence of the individual, including comments and evaluations made by a check airman designated under 14 CFR §§ 121.411, 125.295, or 135.337. For example, documents that show the individual’s qualifications as instructor/evaluator, check airman, or examiner; and records of the individual’s proficiency checks (recurring checks for captain, first officer, or line checks).
(3) Records of any disciplinary action(s) that were not subsequently overturned, if these disciplinary actions pertained to the individual’s performance as a pilot.
(4) Any release from employment or resignation, termination, or disqualification of the individual with respect to employment.
b. Disciplinary Actions that Resulted in Termination of Employment. Report any disciplinary actions you took against the pilot that played any role in the individual’s termination or release from employment.
c. Disciplinary Actions Involving Pilot’s Performance. Only report disciplinary actions unrelated to an individual’s termination or release from employment if the actions involved the individual’s performance as a pilot and have not been subsequently overturned. You should not report other employment-related actions that have nothing to do with the pilot’s aeronautical duties that resulted in a disciplinary action, but did not result in discharge or termination.

 

[time builder]

Thanks for the specifics on the PRIA. I still don't think it's going to look good on the record. And most companies that I know of will ask about ineligability for rehire.

Bottom line, it's going to get competitive trying to find airline jobs in a recession. You don't want that on your record.