This just in ... merger talks continue with "less generous terms."

[737 Pylt]

Thats not possible under the current scope clause. They would have to park those pretty new EJETS before that can happen. Scope is a wonderful thing! DAL should try it sometime

Oh, this is precious coming from a nwa FNG!
I guess you conviently forgot about all those wonderful new ejets you outsourced.....Well of course you didn't, after, that's where you just came from a month ago!

737

 

[JoeMerchant]

Absofreakinglutely.

Getting 51 seat and up jets back during THIS round of negotiations (NOT later) will be the defining moment of our careers. Those planes MUST be taken away from outsource providers by ANY means necessary.

....sounds like a huge conflict of interest.....aren't many of those "providers" ALPA also? What do you mean by "ANY means"......"Brother"?

 

[clippyrip]

I never really got the conflict with the DC9....Everybody makes jokes about it, nobody wants to fly it and when there is talk of losing it to scope, now everyone wants it back.

I don't want the ball unless someone else wants to play with it....

If they park the DC9 and we don't lose our jobs, great. Then we'll fly a bigger and better aircraft to better destinations for better pay. I don't see the problem.

IMHO

 

[JoeMerchant]

I never really got the conflict with the DC9....Everybody makes jokes about it, nobody wants to fly it and when there is talk of losing it to scope, now everyone wants it back.

I don't want the ball unless someone else wants to play with it....

If they park the DC9 and we don't lose our jobs, great. Then we'll fly a bigger and better aircraft to better destinations for better pay. I don't see the problem.

IMHO

.....just like an RJ....Only time the mainline folks want to fly it is when the furloughs start....Then it becomes a "real" airplane....

 

[Turtle21]

This means you too ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

NONE of us want a USAIR saga.

As long as ALPA pretends to be a union across carriers, ALPA sagas will be revisited upon the pilots of ALPA.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

You know... as I sit here and sift through all this animosity and all these hard feelings, I nonetheless find myself awash in a sea of contentment. Not once over 6 pages of baseless mudslinging did jke406 rear his ugly head. Was his ban permanent??

On the other hand, I also notice that in jke's absence, 737pylt has gotten increasingly shrill and offensive. Too bad he has to use his Delta screen name now that his flame-baiting trolling screen name has been "grounded".

 

[737 Pylt]

You know... as I sit here and sift through all this animosity and all these hard feelings, I nonetheless find myself awash in a sea of contentment. Not once over 6 pages of baseless mudslinging did jke406 rear his ugly head. Was his ban permanent??

On the other hand, I also notice that in jke's absence, 737pylt has gotten increasingly shrill and offensive. Too bad he has to use his Delta screen name now that his flame-baiting trolling screen name has been "grounded".

Lemme guess, detoilet320, is that you? Don't you get tired of signing in and out of your other screen names?
Welcome back from the pen....Does the sunlight hurt your eyes?

737

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Lemme guess, detoilet320, is that you? Don't you get tired of signing in and out of your other screen names?
Welcome back from the pen....Does the sunlight hurt your eyes?

737

Nope, try again. Sorry you got banned though, jke406.

 

[Superpilot92]

Oh, this is precious coming from a nwa FNG! Wow, i guess i didnt realize information about scope changed depending on how long your with a company. Weird!!!
I guess you conviently forgot about all those wonderful new ejets you outsourced.....Well of course you didn't, after, that's where you just came from a month ago! Wrong longer, thanks for trying to keep track of my career progression though. Thats cute :blush:

737

jke406 you should really find a new hobby, your antics are getting pretty lame and you dont want to get this screen name banned next do you?

 

[IronCityBlue]

....sounds like a huge conflict of interest.....aren't many of those "providers" ALPA also? What do you mean by "ANY means"......"Brother"?

If mainlines were to force their pilots to the top of your seniority lists and bump you down, that would be unacceptable. But they have the right to reclaim their airline's flying at any time. Will it be expensive for them? Of course, because that's the bed they made and must deal with. But it can and should be done.

If you go Independence Air, you will be 100% entitled to all EV/OO flying, and no DL or UA pilot will have a claim to one seat of that flying, be it RJ, 737 or 747-800.

Just because an ALPA group gets an ACMI outsource contract does not mean it forever owns claim to that flying. In fact, it never owns any claim to that flying for another company, by definition.

In any case, despite the AA saber rattling, there is no way they are going to reclaim 37 seats and up all at once. But 51 seats and up is an awesome start. Hopefully CAL will hold on to that, and AA will get that, followed by DL and UA and NW in each upcoming contract.

To get that, serious negotiating capital will have to be spent, but I believe its worth it. There is no other long term viable option. All airline pilots have 100% right to negotiate for 100% of all pilot jobs for their airline. UA and DL pilots are not entitled to EV/OO flying, and EV and OO pilots are not entitled to UA/DL flying. Ever.

 

[IronCityBlue]

.....just like an RJ....Only time the mainline folks want to fly it is when the furloughs start....Then it becomes a "real" airplane....

If its your contention that mainline pilot groups were shortsighted and even downright arrogant with regards to the previous and current wave of outsourced RJ lift, you will get no argument from me. You can even make the case that some mainline pilots have treated RJ flying with condescension and contempt. You can then cry hypocrisy when those same pilots want that flying back. All of that may be intellectually sound on some level. But you can't then take those valid points and lay claim to any of the outsourced flying that you do for other airlines.

 

[JoeMerchant]

If its your contention that mainline pilot groups were shortsighted and even downright arrogant with regards to the previous and current wave of outsourced RJ lift, you will get no argument from me. You can even make the case that some mainline pilots have treated RJ flying with condescension and contempt. You can then cry hypocrisy when those same pilots want that flying back. All of that may be intellectually sound on some level. But you can't then take those valid points and lay claim to any of the outsourced flying that you do for other airlines.

I most certainly can lay claim to my job.....If my union tries to destroy my job....I will try to destroy my union....The best solution would be to work together.....but don't tell me my job belongs to someone else.....that dog won't hunt....and that could get very ugly.....

 

[IronCityBlue]

I most certainly can lay claim to my job.....If my union tries to destroy my job....I will try to destroy my union....The best solution would be to work together.....but don't tell me my job belongs to someone else.....that dog won't hunt....and that could get very ugly.....

I agree working together is always best, but you have to accept that, in the context of DL and UA flying (and any other outsource flying you may do) that you have zero leverage with regards to that flying.

One of many different ways flying could be brought back in house may be to add your pilot group to the bottom of the list if (and only if) your list is used as a conduit towards bringing that flying back to mainline. It is not the only way, but it is one possible way. One that was made infinitely more complicated by your acquisition by a large non pilot union company, but no matter. There are numerous other ways. If you don't like that you can sue again if you want, but I suspect that suit would be about as effective as the last one, which was as effective as a lawsuit against Pinnacle or Mesa would be for underbidding you. Its not your flying and you have no leverage to keep it.

If its ever to be brought back to the mainline seniority list, that will only happen if the mainline pilot groups pay dearly for it. They have the right to do so if they chose. So far they have chosen not to, but CAL is holding strong at 50 seat jets and AA is talking about 100% scope, which IMO just may mean getting the 70 back, and that's a great start.

Pilot groups shouldn't do other airline's flying, particularly 70 and 90 seat jets. That's gone way, way too far.

 

[jmreii]

if labor is not on board the reflection in the mirror will not be of U.S. airways but of yourselves. U.S. air is still in the test tube stage, we don't know if they are going to make it or not.