NJA upgrade time

[fullsail]

First post, be gentle fellas! Is Aug/2005 still accurate as the most junior Captain on the property? How about the most junior XL Captain? Most junior X Captain?
Thx in advance

 

[fischman]

Welcome on board!

Most junior XL PIC was hired on 12/2/04

Most junior X PIC was hired on 7/17/04

Most junior on property was hired on 8/8/05

 

[fullsail]

Thanks fischman!

 

[flywest]

FYI - Most recent junior captain bid was for the Encore+ and went to someone with a 4/2005 hire date. Upgrades are at 3 years and increasing.

 

[skiandsurf]

FYI - Most recent junior captain bid was for the Encore+ and went to someone with a 4/2005 hire date. Upgrades are at 3 years and increasing.

FYI... they just posted awards for about 10 captain positions. Only 1 was a true upgrade, the other 9 were captains jumping around. Soooooo, at the rate of 1 upgrade per month, its going to much longer than 3 yrs. I would count on at least 7 yrs.

 

[CA1900]

On the other hand, the new contract has increased seat locks from 24 months to 39, which should slow down the aircraft-hopping. The fact that they now all pay the same (with very few exceptions) will probably also affect the plane-jumping.

 

[gunfyter]

But if the "aircraft hopping" stops ... there will be fewer bids because no vacancies will be created by those leaving their present seats....

 

[skiandsurf]

But if the "aircraft hopping" stops ... there will be fewer bids because no vacancies will be created by those leaving their present seats....

This might have been the case when they staffed the company 70/30. But with a leaner 60/40 or even 55/45, those seats dont really become vacant.

 

[c5driver]

This might have been the case when they staffed the company 70/30. But with a leaner 60/40 or even 55/45, those seats dont really become vacant.

We're at approx 67/33 right now. Heard the 60/40 is the goal so upgrade will slow for a bit...but with net 50+ planes this year and hiring 450+ that can only help. My S.W.A.G is 4-5, but I'm just the drummer.:laugh:

 

[av8tor4239]

I know there is no Mandatory Retirement age, but I have only flown with one captain on the XL under 60 years old. Most of these guys I am flying with are saying they only have a couple of years left in them...... Take it for what its worth, I think there will be alot of guys dropping in the next 5 years for retirements...

 

[jtf]

I wish that was true for me too, but I have flown with many XL captains in their 30s and many younger than me. Some pilots will retire in the next 5 years, but with no forced retirements for age, there are a lot of guys who will be staying for a long, long time to rebuild the retirements that were taken from them at the legacies they came from.

 

[Guitar Guy]

My guess is that the aircraft-hopping will continue for a little while as current PIC's react to the new CBA. With the new rules on schedules and the loss of crossover pay in the XL fleet, some people are now switching fleets to gain relative seniority. But as another respondent has stated, the last 2 EP awards went to folks with early-to-mid '05 hire dates (which I think puts them in the mid 1800's).

Of course, another fallout from this PIC fleet-swapping and the new CBA is that SIC's are also doing the same thing. As a result, fewer of the larger cabin aircraft will be going to new-hires.

As for predictions on upgrade, I think someone getting hired today should count on about 5-6 years at a minimum and be thankful if it's less than that.

 

[Twotter76]

Guitar Guy brings up an important point - when looking at the upgrades here you can't really look at the hire date, it is more important to look at seniority number. I was hired here in 11/05 but that last award was to a 4/05 hire so logically you would think that it should be about 8 more months for me, however there was massive hiring going on at the time so I still have probably 130 people in front of me. At the rate that real upgrades have been going lately thats going to be a lot more than 8 months I figure. Not saying this to be negative as life here as an SIC definitely doesn't suck but if you are thinking about coming here you need to be aware that the chance of you seeing that fourth stripe anytime soon are slim to none.

 

[LostComm]

..... and hiring 450+ ......

That number is a pipe dream at the current hiring rate, and we are just about through the first quarter now.

At the current rate we will be lucky to hire 200 this year!

 

[theskyking]

How many are we hiring per month? It would take 37 per month to get to that 450. Only 17 per month to top 200. Anybody have some solid numbers?

 

[Helmsalee]

Probably something in between. From what I'm hearing they have hired around 30 per month so far. Training slots are the bottleneck based on what I've heard. That could get better or worse over the rest of the year. MHO

 

[B +]

How many are we hiring per month? It would take 37 per month to get to that 450. Only 17 per month to top 200. Anybody have some solid numbers?

There are 65 new hires added this year as of the list dated 3/13.

 

[gunfyter]

if you are hired at number 2800... you need there to be 4666 pilots on the property before you make PIC. 2800 if 60% of 4666. You need 1866 pilots to be hired after you,, it will take 5 yrs to hire that many. assuming we don't have a recession that halts hiring a year or so.

This is why it was important to correct SIC pay in the IBB

 

[captain dad]

www.njasap.com

Sign your cards and mail them in.

 

[notaNJApilot]

www.njasap.com

Sign your cards and mail them in.

How does this relate to upgrade time?

 

[Freight Dog]

I just sent an application to NJA again. I was told by Derinda that my old one was no longer active. I never got an interview or an e-mail from NJA after the first app.

How competitive is it these days to get an interview? Do they frown at 121 guys? I just want out of Aloha and this Chapter 11 dejavu.

Any words of wisdom are greatly appreciated...

 

[netjetwife]

...This is why it was important to correct SIC pay in the IBB

Absolutely! It's one of the big reasons my husband worked so hard on behalf of the pilot group during IBB.

Nota, the connection is an indirect one. The point is that the NJA pilots have the contract they do today (with a sustainable FO salary) because of their own efforts and the cooperative spirit with management that benefits all involved. (Personal thanks to you, Nota, if you helped with IBB). The Teamsters gave them no assistance at all, or even recognition for raising the bar in the frac industry. The NJ pilots are fully capable of going it alone. They have the knowledge and motivation (the Teamsters don't) to speak up for the frac industry during political discussions. The pilots will be better served by using that portion of dues currently going to the IBT to promote education of industry issues ignored by the Teamsters. With that being one of NJASAP's objectives, I would think that other NJA employees would support the NJ pilots effort to become an Independent Union. Are the workers in CMH discussing it, and if so, what are they saying about it? Regards, NJW

 

[gutshotdraw]

So NJW, when are they announcing the decertification/recertification vote? Is there a tentative name of the "new" union? ASAP 1108 or the like?

 

[notaNJApilot]

With that being one of NJASAP's objectives, I would think that other NJA employees would support the NJ pilots effort to become an Independent Union. Are the workers in CMH discussing it, and if so, what are they saying about it? Regards, NJW

I've heard very little chatter about the union situation in CMH. Personally I don't really care as long as I don't have to go through implementing another contract every 2 years. I see positives coming from a group called "the union"; the prefix of IBT doesn't mean anything to me. So if they want to change their name, go for it.

 

[be-400xpdriver]

NJASAP


Net
Jets
Asscociation of
Shared
Aircraft
Pilots

 

[Mooneymite]

Seniority list growth

There are 65 new hires added this year as of the list dated 3/13.

Jan 06: Approx 2300
Jan 07: Approx 2600
Jan 08: Approx 2750

More pilots were hired than would be indicated by the length of the seniority list, but there has been some attrition. In the last two years, it was commonly held that Flight Safety training slots were the obstruction to hiring. Don't know if FSI capacity has changed significantly, or not.

I will be surprised...no, AMAZED if we add 400 pilots this year. Just a guess, but I think Jan 09 might feature a 2950 pilot list. Obviously more than 200 pilots will be hired, but some will be replacements for departing pilots.

Any other prognosticators out there?

 

[netjetwife]

So NJW, when are they announcing the decertification/recertification vote? Is there a tentative name of the "new" union? ASAP 1108 or the like?

GSD, Be400 gave you the new name and you can check out their website at njasap.com for lots of detailed information. The National Mediation Board (NMB) will call for a vote after the requisite number (50% plus 1) of cards showing interest have been turned in. The card drive is off to a good start and I'd like to give public thanks to those NJ pilots helping to spread the word...

Nota, I can see how it would look like just a name change to the other employees, but there's actually a lot more to it, as njasap.com explains. Additionally, you don't have to be an actual Union member to dislike the stigma attached to the Teamsters name. An independent, in-house union of professional pilots has an image more befitting of the company they represent and the clientèle they fly.

Those obstructing progress and refusing to respond to the membership need to get the black boot.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Well, good luck with that. I can think of at least one reason why getting rid of the Teamsters will be a good idea a couple years from now...

 

[gmorgan]

I went to work for NetJets in July of 2005....seniority number in the high 1900's.

I plan to hold out for a PIC bid on an APU A/C.

The factors that will effect when I get a bid are 3 things:

1. A/C deliveries

2. How many SIC's ahead of me hold out for an APU A/C

3. How many PIC's on non APU A/C bid over to APU A/C

I ran the numbers based on 60% and 80% of both groups bidding APU A/C.

With known A/C deliveries:

At 60% I'll get a bid on an APU A/C by Sept. 2009

At 80% I'll get a bid on an APU A/C by July 2010

That's right at 5 years for someone that went to work in July 2005. I think someone going to work today should realistically expect anywhere from 6 to 8 years for an upgrade to an APU A/C....maybe even any A/C.

 

[fischman]

So NJW, when are they announcing the decertification/recertification vote? Is there a tentative name of the "new" union? ASAP 1108 or the like?

The timing depends on how fast the pilots get the authorization cards sent in.