Did ALPA get religion on alter egos?

[N2264J]

“Intolerable!”
ALPA pilots picket coast-to-coast to back British Airways pilots
March 15, 2008 - In a stirring show of cross-Atlantic unity, ALPA pilots conducted informational picketing across the United States on Saturday to demonstrate solidarity with their union brothers and sisters at British Airways (BA) as they fight their management’s attempt to start a new airline without using pilots from their seniority list.

Where was all the righteous indignation about alter ego airlines when Delta was permitted to establish nine alter egos at DCI (several not even ALPA carriers), in this country, after their kneejerk denial of Delta/Comair/ASA merger petition in 2000?

Why are my union dues dollars funding this fake display of outrage about a UK airline that's not even in ALPA? Would it be reasonable to ask if ALPA has any credibility on this issue?

Judge ALPA by their actions, not their words.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

IT has to start sometime....

Did the US get religion on slavery too late?

Did the US get religion on womens rights? What about that old woman who wanted to vote all her life only to die just before it became law?

 

[jke406]

Comparing ALPA to slavery.

WTF are you talking about?

 

[ifly4food]

IT has to start sometime....

Did the US get religion on slavery too late?

Did the US get religion on womens rights? What about that old woman who wanted to vote all her life only to die just before it became law?

Just to make sure we get this right, Rez, ALPA can do no wrong in your book. There's an excuse for every action. Is that about right?

 

[ifly4food]

Where was all the righteous indignation about alter ego airlines when Delta was permitted to establish nine alter egos at DCI (several not even ALPA carriers), in this country, after their kneejerk denial of Delta/Comair/ASA merger petition in 2000?

Why are my union dues dollars funding this fake display of outrage about a UK airline that's not even in ALPA? Would it be reasonable to ask if ALPA has any credibility on this issue?

Judge ALPA by their actions, not their words.

Nothing but another tired ALPA publicity stunt. All talk, no substance. US regionals can get whipsawed from now until eternity, but a MAINLINE group across the pond gets screwed and ITS WAR!!!

Move along, nothing to see here.

 

[doh]

Rez, I have a very simple question. Would it be better to spend that money at home to bring all of a U.S. carriers' flying back inhouse, or continue the whipsaw that ALPA has allowed since the 80's?

 

[Occam's Razor]

Why are my union dues dollars funding this fake display of outrage about a UK airline that's not even in ALPA?

Deja vu!

A few years ago I was scratching my head over the dues money my union had to spend to defend against a frivolous lawsuit filed by a bunch of booger-eating RJDC losers...who were members of the same union!

Would it be reasonable to ask if ALPA has any credibility on this issue? Judge ALPA by their actions, not their words.

"Reasonable" uttered by an RJDC dweeb?

"Philanderer!", exclaimed Eliot Spitzer!

"Gun safety NOW!" cried Dick "Deadeye" Cheney!

The circle is unbroken.

 

[PCL_128]

Rez, I have a very simple question. Would it be better to spend that money at home to bring all of a U.S. carriers' flying back inhouse, or continue the whipsaw that ALPA has allowed since the 80's?

How do you suggest that ALPA end the whipsaw?

 

[PuffDriver]

Deja vu!

A few years ago I was scratching my head over the dues money my union had to spend to defend against a frivolous lawsuit filed by a bunch of booger-eating RJDC losers...who were members of the same union!



"Reasonable" uttered by an RJDC dweeb?

"Philanderer!", exclaimed Eliot Spitzer!

"Gun safety NOW!" cried Dick "Deadeye" Cheney!

The circle is unbroken.

That was great, and you saved me some typing. you said it all. Here's hoping cooler heads will prevail in our deal.

 

[N2264J]

IT has to start sometime....

Well, of course it had to start sometime, Snowflake. Hey, I've got an idea! Why not start WITH ALPA MEMBERS!

As ALPA is wrings its hands about alter egos in Europe, you, PCL_128, Occum's Razor, and the other hacks blithely explain away union blemishes while a big, dead, smelly fish lies rotting before us on ALPA's table.

You know, when Dan Brannan ran for president he said "Noone is afraid of ALPA anymore" and he was right. Do you think the management of British
Airways gives a hoot what ALPA thinks after seeing them throw their own members under the bus? They're laughing at our stupid informational picketing. The only people taken in by this charade are the sycophants like you.

Tell me, why doesn't the union demand that the Compass, Mesaba and Comair pilots be represented at the Delta/NWA talks? We're all in the same union. We're all in the soon-to-be same company. Why only two pilot groups at the table?

 

[PCL_128]

Tell me, why doesn't the union demand that the Compass, Mesaba and Comair pilots be represented at the Delta/NWA talks? We're all in the same union. We're all in the soon-to-be same company. Why only two pilot groups at the table?

Because you don't work for NWA or DAL. Seriously, we've been over this before. Try to keep up. Just because your napkins say Delta on them, doesn't mean that you work for Delta.

 

[N2264J]

Because you don't work for NWA or DAL. Seriously, we've been over this before. Try to keep up. Just because your napkins say Delta on them, doesn't mean that you work for Delta.

Let me remind you of what ALPA says it finds so objectionable in England:

“Intolerable!”
ALPA pilots picket coast-to-coast to back British Airways pilots
March 15, 2008 - In a stirring show of cross-Atlantic unity, ALPA pilots conducted informational picketing across the United States on Saturday to demonstrate solidarity with their union brothers and sisters at British Airways (BA) as they fight their management’s attempt to start a new airline without using pilots from their seniority list.

You should try to keep up. Honestly, I don't think you understand the relationship between "merger" and "alter ego."

 

[PCL_128]

GoJet is an alter-ego. Freedumb was an alter-ego. Comair is a subsidiary. The DAL pilots have specifically carved out a portion of their contract that allows for the existence of your carrier. The BA pilots have not done the same.

 

[IronCityBlue]

How do you suggest that ALPA end the whipsaw?

Nothing less than CAL scope in all upcoming contracts. No jet certified over 50 seats can be outsourced under any circumstance. The company can put them on any certificate they want, under any fake holding company they want, but the pilot jobs belong to one ALPA seniority list. 50 seaters can stull be outsourced, for now (we'll get to that one next round, along with large turbo props).

How do you make that happen? The same way you make anything the company doesn't want to happen to happen. Scope restoration is far more important than pay rate restoration right now because scope exemptions are the single biggest drain on pay rates going forward. Its time to start kicking the camel's nose out of the tent.

 

[PCL_128]

How would you do it, though? Bring all the regional guys onto the bottom of the mainline seniority list? You can't just toss them aside, because they're ALPA members also in many cases. This is where the problem comes in.

 

[~~~^~~~]

GoJet is an alter-ego. Freedumb was an alter-ego. Comair is a subsidiary. The DAL pilots have specifically carved out a portion of their contract that allows for the existence of your carrier. The BA pilots have not done the same.

Depends on the time frame you look at. ASA and Comair flew their own code. Delta bought those airlines and their code. They should have been merged and stapled in an effort to fight alter ego outsourcing of Delta's narrow body flying.

When push comes to shove, the part of Delta's contract that was "carved out" got dredged by a steam shovel until all the 737-200 flying and a good chunk of 727 flying went off the property while Delta pilots got furloughed & replaced by alter ego pilots.

The senior guys were protected, the junior guys got screwed SNAFU. But ALPA's legitimacy as a representative of professional pilots continues to suffer greatly as a result of this mistake.

Worse, true ALPA patriots in our generation fail to even understand Alter Ego and how it threatens our profession.

Wide bodies are real aircraft, so are Beech 1900's.

 

[~~~^~~~]

How would you do it, though? Bring all the regional guys onto the bottom of the mainline seniority list? You can't just toss them aside, because they're ALPA members also in many cases. This is where the problem comes in.

True, it isn't easy. But no one is talking about operating NWA and Delta as separate carriers despite their differences on SLI.

 

[JoeMerchant]

GoJet is an alter-ego. Freedumb was an alter-ego. Comair is a subsidiary. The DAL pilots have specifically carved out a portion of their contract that allows for the existence of your carrier. The BA pilots have not done the same.

What is your definition of "alter-ego"?

 

[PCL_128]

Depends on the time frame you look at. ASA and Comair flew their own code. Delta bought those airlines and their code. They should have been merged and stapled in an effort to fight alter ego outsourcing of Delta's narrow body flying.

I agree, but since nothing in any of the respective CBAs (or PWA) required a merger, none was going to happen, no matter how loud Dan Ford b!tched about a PID. It just wasn't going to happen.

 

[PCL_128]

What is your definition of "alter-ego"?

A company operated outside of the intent of the CBA scope language in order to circumvent the CBA and transfer flying to non-seniority-list pilots.