The big vote. Any guesses?

[trainer8]

Aren't you a CEL Flowup?

Isn't that obvious from my profile? I was hired through that process. As one AWA pilot on this board put it, I "backed into the job." My being placed on the US Airways Pilot seniority list was through the "act" of US Airways moving the MDA operation onto the US Airways Operating Certificate and the resulting CBA obligations.

In the context of the current state of affairs at US Airways I would like to say, "glad to be here," but that would be lying. Professionally, the MDA pilots are, at the core, the most professional group of men and women I've ever worked with.

T8

 

[Boeing747Driver]

Isn't that obvious from my profile? I was hired through that process. As one AWA pilot on this board put it, I "backed into the job." My being placed on the US Airways Pilot seniority list was through the "act" of US Airways moving the MDA operation onto the US Airways Operating Certificate and the resulting CBA obligations.

In the context of the current state of affairs at US Airways I would like to say, "glad to be here," but that would be lying. Professionally, the MDA pilots are, at the core, the most professional group of men and women I've ever worked with.

T8

I'm not giving you a hard time. It was just a question.

 

[Carl S.]

Sounds like "trainer 8" has a inferiority complex? Your on the list one way or the other. In the military people got their commisions from all different ways, but not everyone was a ring knocker. ALPA got you on that list thru an abortion of an agreement before the AWA deal. Do you think USAPA really cares about anyone after 1991 DOH?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

How is USAPA going to pay for itself?

After the company drains its funds and membership assesment after assessment.... How much are you guys willing to pay for USAPA?

A golden oportunity for USAIR to become non union....

 

[trainer8]

Sounds like "trainer 8" has a inferiority complex?

Not sure what you mean...if your referring to being at the very bottom of the seniority list, no, I'm in good company.

In the military people got their commisions from all different ways, but not everyone was a ring knocker. ALPA got you on that list thru an abortion of an agreement before the AWA deal.

We're not in the military, but I understand the analogy. The MDA agreement's original intent was for a different outcome. When the playing field was changed by LCC, the AAA MEC were incapable (read ignorant and arrogant) of what they were doing. After it was done, their initial attempt was to deny, lie and cover up, with ALPA National's wink. Later, the CEL that came over, attained seniority list position by their AAA ALPA acclamation. (with a little help from a lawyer from NYC). By the way, if you think the MDA start-up was an "abortion," I'd hate to see what you call this merger.

It is ALPA who submitted a list of names to George Nicolau that showed active US Airways Pilots as furloughed at the snapshot when they were in fact dues paying, LEC and MEC committee members--active US Airways Pilots. It is ALPA and JP, who openly called the Nicolau award the most devastating award to affect US airline pilots. Yet, ALPA has done nothing to go back to its own Merger Policy and say..."hmmmm, maybe this isn't the best idea. Let's go back to the drawing table and tweak it."

Do you think USAPA really cares about anyone after 1991 DOH?

I think that USAPA is a totally different animal then ALPA. I've talked with their leadership. Their focus has been very inclusive. I believe ALPA is corrupt to the core, that being demonstrated by the trusteeship of Council 41. The subsequent current AAA MEC meltdown supports that. ALPA cares about ALPA as an organization, not pilots.

The amount of e-mail and post mail flowing out of Herdon containing out-and-out lies (most recent about ASAP at LCC) that has bombarded my computer and house...wow, there is some serious money being spent to flip the election process.

They are worried.

T8

 

[ALGFLYR]

Do you think USAPA really cares about anyone after 1991 DOH?

Yes.

This will be a union for pilots, by pilots...

I keep thinking about the phrase "Trust, but verify"

We will do that. USAPA will not make any decisions without the pilots input. Does ALPA do that?? Of course not. USAPA may not be the "Crown Jewel" of unions, which is how the West and many others think the East feels about USAPA, but we will have control of what happens. Just imagine a union doing what is best for the actual pilots it represents...

We certainly can't do any worse than ALPA...

 

[Prog 2/2]

Give it up.

This isn't about "representation".

USAPA is just a mechanism to circumvent a binding arbitration decision, nothing more.

They've already tipped their hand about the quality of their "representation". (Hint, "cost-neutral")

Nothing but a seat grab and a bunch of emotive rationalization going on here.

As for your MDA argument---

Tell me again how a USAir pilot became eligible for a job at MDA?

How much furlough pay did an Eagle flowback get at AA?

You've offered such stunning proof of your claims that I'm surprised ALPA isn't just gonna claim defeat and start sending you money, or at least make you a Bus captain.( I like the one about "Operated by US Airways" best, that's a real clincher.)

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes.

This will be a union for pilots, by pilots...

Of course you have the advantage of managing a small pilot group. Without a doubt it is much difficult to manage 60,000 members than the X,000 USAIRways pilots.

And if USAPA suceeds... you can easily claim effectiveness with your pilot numbers. Do you think it is easier to run the state of RI or CA? RI or the US gov't?

I keep thinking about the phrase "Trust, but verify"

Please. What about the Nic award. You were told. But you ignored. Then got the award and cried foul. An integrity issue perhaps?

We will do that. USAPA will not make any decisions without the pilots input. Does ALPA do that??

Riiiiight. The pilots at USAPA only want what all pilots want.... "where is mine and what is in it for me" You think the core character of the USAPA pilot will be any different than an ALPA pilot?

ALPA pilot particapation levels are:

LEC elections 35%
Meeting participation 5%.
PAC.... oops... what is your plan to have a PAC?

After the honeymoon is over and the agenda of the DOH senority/Nic award is over... do you really think the USAPA pilots are going to be "looking out for each other"???

Of course not.

ALPA does allot. Current status is not a motivator. Only things that one does not have is a motivater. Like your DOH. You don't have that. You want it. Therefore you are motivated to get it.... with almost any means... including the USAPA drive.

All the while you are forgetting everything that you do have... which is shown in my questions below... I'd appreciate an answer...

USAPA may not be the "Crown Jewel" of unions, which is how the West and many others think the East feels about USAPA, but we will have control of what happens.

Control? Are you kidding? Between the Bush Admin, the Corp America Slighted NMB, the Current DOT sec, and the acting FAA admin... and the long standing laws and RLA.... where do you think you have control????

This country is about big business and profit.. not hourly labor like you and me... Control.... you make me laugh..... hard.

Just imagine a union doing what is best for the actual pilots it represents...

What is best for you and the guy on the opposite end of the sniority list are two different things.... but if you think changing brands is going to change individual dynamics and character... go for it... try your experiement with in house unions...

We certainly can't do any worse than ALPA...

Really... well then answer these questions....


The opportunity is ripe for management to rid thier company of any pilot representation. What is USAPA's plan to ensure that USAIRways management does not drain USAPA finances and BK the pilots?

What will the dues rate be at USAPA?

It is common for in house unions to have assessments? What is USAPA's policy on assessments?

Will USAPA purchase services from ALPA as does the IPA, NPA, APA and SWAPA as well as many international pilot groups?

What is USAPA's plan for CapHill representation? Will they join CAPA? The only effective pilot group on CapHill is ALPA. Do USAPA pilots accept silence on major issues such as BK reform, pension reform, RLA reform, FFDO legislation, security/airport access, flight time/duty time, fatigue, NAS modernization, NTSB accident/incident investigation, FAA reauthorization bills, etc...

What is USAPA's plan for international issues such as MPL licenses, cabatoge, open skies, etc.. Will USAPA be silent on these issues that will effect USAPA pilots as does APA pilots? USAPA pilots will be forced thru their choice to be silent, like the APA pilots, as ALPA speaks for them.

There is only two organizations that have observer status at ICAO. ALPA is one of them. Are the USAPA pilots ready to forgoe thier voice on international issues, policy and law? Are USAPA pilots international pilots?

What is USAPA's plan to assist and recover a USAPA pilot who has been charged criminally overseas for doing his/her job to the best of his ability? ALPA has a go-plan and network to get ALPA pilots back to the USA within 72 hours of incident. What is USAPA's plan?

 

[trainer8]

This isn't about "representation".

USAPA is just a mechanism to circumvent a binding arbitration decision, nothing more.

From someone at the bottom of the list...it's about representation.

Nothing but a seat grab and a bunch of emotive rationalization going on here.

There is nothing to grab down here. I'm pretty much where I would be regardless of Nicolau.

You've offered such stunning proof of your claims that I'm surprised ALPA isn't just gonna claim defeat and start sending you money...

Interesting quote...you may want to do some research. What you have written is a possibility...especially after this past Friday. :0

 

[Prog 2/2]

Interesting quote...you may want to do some research. What you have written is a possibility...especially after this past Friday. :0

So why don't you enlighten us, sparky?

What occured on Friday that makes your argument any stronger?

 

[trainer8]

So why don't you enlighten us, sparky?

What occured on Friday that makes your argument any stronger?

Can't elaborate...suffice it to say that there was a "legal hearing" that ALPA didn't get it's way. Stay tuned...

 

[Deadalus]

Of course you have the advantage of managing a small pilot group. Without a doubt it is much difficult to manage 60,000 members than the X,000 USAIRways pilots.

And if USAPA suceeds... you can easily claim effectiveness with your pilot numbers. Do you think it is easier to run the state of RI or CA? RI or the US gov't?



Please. What about the Nic award. You were told. But you ignored. Then got the award and cried foul. An integrity issue perhaps?



Riiiiight. The pilots at USAPA only want what all pilots want.... "where is mine and what is in it for me" You think the core character of the USAPA pilot will be any different than an ALPA pilot?

ALPA pilot particapation levels are:

LEC elections 35%
Meeting participation 5%.
PAC.... oops... what is your plan to have a PAC?

After the honeymoon is over and the agenda of the DOH senority/Nic award is over... do you really think the USAPA pilots are going to be "looking out for each other"???




ALPA does allot. Current status is not a motivator. Only things that one does not have is a motivater. Like your DOH. You don't have that. You want it. Therefore you are motivated to get it.... with almost any means... including the USAPA drive.

All the while you are forgetting everything that you do have... which is shown in my questions below... I'd appreciate an answer...



Control? Are you kidding? Between the Bush Admin, the Corp America Slighted NMB, the Current DOT sec, and the acting FAA admin... and the long standing laws and RLA.... where do you think you have control????

This country is about big business and profit.. not hourly labor like you and me... Control.... you make me laugh..... hard.




What is best for you and the guy on the opposite end of the sniority list are two different things.... but if you think changing brands is going to change individual dynamics and character... go for it... try your experiement with in house unions...



Really... well then answer these questions....


The opportunity is ripe for management to rid thier company of any pilot representation. What is USAPA's plan to ensure that USAIRways management does not drain USAPA finances and BK the pilots?

What will the dues rate be at USAPA?

It is common for in house unions to have assessments? What is USAPA's policy on assessments?

Will USAPA purchase services from ALPA as does the IPA, NPA, APA and SWAPA as well as many international pilot groups?

What is USAPA's plan for CapHill representation? Will they join CAPA? The only effective pilot group on CapHill is ALPA. Do USAPA pilots accept silence on major issues such as BK reform, pension reform, RLA reform, FFDO legislation, security/airport access, flight time/duty time, fatigue, NAS modernization, NTSB accident/incident investigation, FAA reauthorization bills, etc...

What is USAPA's plan for international issues such as MPL licenses, cabatoge, open skies, etc.. Will USAPA be silent on these issues that will effect USAPA pilots as does APA pilots? USAPA pilots will be forced thru their choice to be silent, like the APA pilots, as ALPA speaks for them.

There is only two organizations that have observer status at ICAO. ALPA is one of them. Are the USAPA pilots ready to forgoe thier voice on international issues, policy and law? Are USAPA pilots international pilots?

What is USAPA's plan to assist and recover a USAPA pilot who has been charged criminally overseas for doing his/her job to the best of his ability? ALPA has a go-plan and network to get ALPA pilots back to the USA within 72 hours of incident. What is USAPA's plan?

You're wasting you're time trying to explain anything to them. They wouldn't listen when they were told DOH isn't going to happen. Telling them USAPA will fail after about two years won't help. After destroying any chances of a good contract the arbitration decision will still be there. They're soo far past stupid education won't help.

 

[ALGFLYR]

Nothing but a seat grab and a bunch of emotive rationalization going on here.

As for your MDA argument---

Tell me again how a USAir pilot became eligible for a job at MDA?

How much furlough pay did an Eagle flowback get at AA?

Seat grab? LOL. I don't want anyones seat out west. Would you agree that any upgrades in PHX or LAS MUST go to a former AWA pilot, while any upgrade in the East bases must go to a former East pilot???

MDA...

The original intent was that MDA was to operated as a division of US Airways, and then-current US Airways pilots could bid for MDA positions. The company didn't like this and wanted MDA to be seperate. ALPA agreed to this and the LOA was re-written to prohibit current mainline pilots from bidding for MDA positions. This is no different than allowing Metro-Jet to operate the SAME aircraft in the US Airways system under different pay rates for the pilots... Thanks ALPA...


I'm not sure what your reference to an Eagle flowback has to do with anything...

 

[Boeing747Driver]

Seat grab? LOL. I don't want anyones seat out west. Would you agree that any upgrades in PHX or LAS MUST go to a former AWA pilot, while any upgrade in the East bases must go to a former East pilot???

No! Didn't work that way in all the other AAA mergers.

 

[Prog 2/2]

I guess you agree with my post that they were paid by US Airways to fly jets owned by US Airways and they stopped getting furlough pay from US Airways...because they were NOT furloughed anymore.

ALgFLyR--

That's what the comment about furlough pay is in reference to.

Every AA flowback was paid by AMR, flying an AMR jet, and received less than full furlough pay.

Yet every one of them was furloughed.