AA and CAL merger rumor

[GIII Instructor]

Hearing rumors of a possible AA/CAL combination. I wonder how that would play out...
stay tuned.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I can't think of two airlines that have more overlap.

Houton-Dallas

Chicago-Cleveland

Newark-New York

 

[whatitdoing?]

Ya, let me stay tuned..............wait....tuned out.

 

[pkober]

Cool, I can staple myself to myself.

Another airline rumor, must be true !?!

 

[NuGuy]

I wouldn't be worried. CAL is locked out from any transactions until NWA gets hitched.

Nu

 

[spacecadet1]

Cool, I can staple myself to myself.

Another airline rumor, must be true !?!

Now that's funny. Nothing like self abuse.

 

[johnsonrod]

I can't think of two airlines that have more overlap.

Houton-Dallas

Chicago-Cleveland

Newark-New York

This is absolutely the reason why you will NEVER see an AA/CAL combination. Complete hub overlap. DAL/NWA has very little hub overlap (although MEM/CVG is a bit close). Plus, with AA's huge debt load and super-old MD80 fleet, why would CAL ever want to get involved with that? Highly doubt it.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

Apparently Larry Kellner was seen in Miami at the old Eastern Air Lines building. An AA mechanic's neighbor told me.

 

[roughneck]

CAL is locked out from any transactions until NWA gets hitched.

NWA can waive that at any time. The NWA management is in a corner. Merge or risk death in the future. $110 oil will kill us all if we don't think outside the box. They may encourage CAL to pursue a merger in order to wake up the NWA pilot group.

NWA managemet WILL merge eventually with or without the pilots onboard. This may be the way to force the pilot group to get realistic.

 

[pipe]

Hearing rumors of a possible AA/CAL combination. I wonder how that would play out...
stay tuned.

It would play out with the AA pilot group completely sodomizing the CAL pilot group. Isn't that how it always plays out?

PIPE

 

[MCDU]

Yeah, thats because CAL is ALPA.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

seems more likely CAL is talking to AA in order to get UAL to up their offer. AA's west coast ops, particularly at LAX, are not large enough for CAL to take it seriously. CAL wants more gates at LAX, and merging with AA or even Alaska wouldn't give them the edge they'd need.

 

[Uniform Shop]

It would play out with the AA pilot group completely sodomizing the CAL pilot group. Isn't that how it always plays out?

That's how it has always been done in the PAST but the new law prevents them from doing it again. It is forced to binding arbitration now if a deal can't be agreed upon. There is no way an arbitrator is going to justify taking an airline like CAL that has been growing and that has 111 airplanes on order and staple the pilots to the bottom of the list.

Let's hope this doesn't happen because there would be massive layoffs.

 

[aa73]

Exactly, Uniform Shop. I don't know why folks keep thinking that APA can still call the shots... under the new law, all mergers with over 49% equity fall under binding arbitration.

CAL pilots... you looked great yesterday on Wall St! It was a pleasure picketing with "youse guys." I was told over 480 pilots showed up.... nice unity!

73
APA fellow picketer

 

[pipe]

I didn't mean sodomize in a figurative, seniority-type way -- I meant that the AA pilots will actually sodomize them while going to binding arbitration per the law.imp:

So actually, I will have to staple the CAL pilots above myself and all of the Eagle flowthroughs which should take my furlough to at least 20 years.

PIPE

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Is swapa telling you something the nwa mec is not telling us? They must be, because surely you are not just going on what the general lee's are posting as far as us being unrealistic. If you know what the seniority integration posistions are, do tell. Otherwise stfu.

CAL is locked out from any transactions until NWA gets hitched.

NWA can waive that at any time. The NWA management is in a corner. Merge or risk death in the future. $110 oil will kill us all if we don't think outside the box. They may encourage CAL to pursue a merger in order to wake up the NWA pilot group.

NWA managemet WILL merge eventually with or without the pilots onboard. This may be the way to force the pilot group to get realistic.

 

[thor2j]

seems more likely CAL is talking to AA in order to get UAL to up their offer. AA's west coast ops, particularly at LAX, are not large enough for CAL to take it seriously. CAL wants more gates at LAX, and merging with AA or even Alaska wouldn't give them the edge they'd need.

There is no offer, it is a MERGER!

Anyways, if anyone bought anyone it would be the other way around!

Flame on!

 

[Uniform Shop]

Exactly, Uniform Shop. I don't know why folks keep thinking that APA can still call the shots... under the new law, all mergers with over 49% equity fall under binding arbitration.

CAL pilots... you looked great yesterday on Wall St! It was a pleasure picketing with "youse guys." I was told over 480 pilots showed up.... nice unity!

73
APA fellow picketer

Thanks for coming out guys. It was nice to see pilots from all the airlines standing together. It was very impressive seeing 500 pilots walking to Battery Park with a police escort.

Here are a couple pictures. Not sure if it will work.

http://www.ccsmax.com/conews/images/rallygroupsmall.jpg

http://pilots.calforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4443&d=1205422696

 

[GIII Instructor]

Exactly, Uniform Shop. I don't know why folks keep thinking that APA can still call the shots... under the new law, all mergers with over 49% equity fall under binding arbitration.

CAL pilots... you looked great yesterday on Wall St! It was a pleasure picketing with "youse guys." I was told over 480 pilots showed up.... nice unity!

73
APA fellow picketer

correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't the new arbitration grant pilots groups date of hire with 2 different unions? AA pilots would come out waaaaay on top that being the case. CAL has hired 2000 pilots in the last 3 1/2 years with 2 1/2 year captains. AA has 18-20yr F.O.s plus 2000 pilots still furloughed.... imagine having to work that one out. The idea that AA stapled is only partially correct. If they indeed stapled, then why did I slide back 800 numbers...

 

[aa73]

correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't the new arbitration grant pilots groups date of hire with 2 different unions? AA pilots would come out waaaaay on top that being the case. CAL has hired 2000 pilots in the last 3 1/2 years with 2 1/2 year captains. AA has 18-20yr F.O.s plus 2000 pilots still furloughed.... imagine having to work that one out. The idea that AA stapled is only partially correct. If they indeed stapled, then why did I slide back 800 numbers...

GIII, they don't necessarily have to use DOH. They can use whatever they feel would not unfairly give a windfall to the other pilot group. In many, many cases DOH does not work, therefore they use a ratio integration or relative seniority.

You slid back 800 numbers because 47% of TWA pilots were slotted in at 1:8 above you, and 53% were stapled below you.

73

 

[Uniform Shop]

correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't the new arbitration grant pilots groups date of hire with 2 different unions? AA pilots would come out waaaaay on top that being the case. CAL has hired 2000 pilots in the last 3 1/2 years with 2 1/2 year captains. AA has 18-20yr F.O.s plus 2000 pilots still furloughed.... imagine having to work that one out. The idea that AA stapled is only partially correct. If they indeed stapled, then why did I slide back 800 numbers...

I have no idea how it would be determined. If it was DOH then yes the AA pilots would come out waaaaay on top because we have 98 hires as 767/757 CA in EWR and 05' hires as 737 CA. That being the case it would be a hell of a windfall gain for the AA pilots and I'm not sure an arbitrator would choose DOH as a way to merge the list.

I'm going to stand on the sidelines on this one. I have a vested interest in both airlines. If it happens it happens and it's out of our hands but I really don't think it will.

 

[AA717driver]

I heard CAL and AA were discussing how to divvy up the 48% of UAL they were each going to buy...

AA: Asia. SEA. 777's. 767's.

CAL: IAD, LHR, DEN, LAX, Deep South.

Let the rest go. TC