End ALPA - Begin War

[SaturnPilot]

You want to know how broken ALPA is? There are nine alter ego airlines at DCI now. Several of them are not even ALPA carriers. Would you like to take this opportunity to say a few words on behalf of ALPA's alter ego policy? Anything? Anything at all?

And the deepest cut of all is not only did ALPA allow it, they engineered it.

Why? The Delta MEC knows that a dollar is a dollar at Delta Inc. and if they can get a dollar at the Comair pilots expense, that's a dollar the Delta pilots won't have to give up in their agreement. If Delta can contract out the flying at a cheaper rate than Comair can fly it, that's money the DMEC can retain in their own contract. Whether or not the flying goes outside the union is immaterial to our "union brothers."

Surely you're familiar with this because the NWA MEC got a $15 million bargaining credit for driving 40 growth aircraft away from Pinnacle and Mesaba. This permits someone else to carry the overhead of the airplanes (not NWA) but results in a couple hundred regional ALPA brand pilots not making captain, not getting better lines, not getting off reserve, not being hired etc. This theft can be quantified in dollars, to the penny, that's not realized by Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots but ends up at the disposal of the Northwest MEC.

In fact, the Delta pilots underbid my old CL-700 rate, once the best in the business, not because they had any expectation of recapturing that flying but to drive the costs down at Comair.

In other words, Comair, Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots have been whipsawed by their own union.

ok, so lets say we get rid of ALPA...how is that going to help you acheive brand scope with Delta? An independent union won't give you that...non-union won't give you that. I don't see any way of you getting that other that working with the DL MEC. An RJDC lawsuit probably didn't help the case either.

You call ALPA broken because of this, but I call it democracy. The majority of DL pilots do not want to pay for your brand scope, whether they are represented by ALPA, Teamsters, etc.

 

[SaturnPilot]

ALPA is a joke. Only interested in dues money.

riiiiiight.

 

[Flopgut]

Age 65 is given as a reason to leave ALPA, but if there was no ALPA (or any central pilot union) Age 65 would have been the law of the land many years ago.

Law of the land? I can't think of any more fundamental than seniority. Age 65 was a seniority grab and you are a seniority offender. The day you fly past 60 you'll go on my seniority offender list right next to the other list I've got. You rationalize otherwise but you don't have to look any further than the fact that so few over 60 are coming back. Without seniority, they don't want it! And I have a feeling you'll conveniently rationalize any issue as long as it accomodates your needs!!

I'm pretty sure your reason for posting this is just to stir this pot so you can feel better about the change! You're just counting the dollar signs and you enjoy knowing the extent to which this harms other's careers. You're a sick, clueless dude. You don't belong in a union. You belong on a list.

 

[Occam's Razor]

ALPA's support is owed. That's what we pay dues for. Stop trying to lay this guilt trip on us as if Comair is some kind of burden to the association.

Pity, I was kinda hoping you'd get it.

My bad. I overestimated your capacity to grasp fundamental concepts of trade unionism.

Comair went on strike. ALPA supported them. All of ALPA...but it was an action taken by Comair pilots in pursuit of their own contract, based on their own priorities. Your repeated assertion that ALPA undermines, or turns its back on, Regionals would have more traction if it wasn't so easily refuted by those facts.

You wanted a different relationship with another MEC...the MEC of the airline that bought your airline. You believed (sincerely, no doubt...like the Pope sincerely believed the Sun orbited the Earth) that you should have been put on their list.

When that pilot group, acting in pursuit of their own contract, supported by ALPA, said "Nope"....you sued.

Then the courts said "Nope".

Occam's Razor: All things being equal, a simpleton.

You could be right! But in your case, that's statistically unlikely.

 

[N2264J]

Your repeated assertion that ALPA undermines, or turns its back on, Regionals would have more traction if it wasn't so easily refuted by those facts.

You probably don't remember the ALPA publication Heads Up or as we like to call it at Comair, Heads Up to Management.

It was sent to every ALPA pilot including ALPA management pilots during our negotiations and decried the Comair pilots, as well as a few other "regionals," for overspending their budgets. So during our contract negotiations, ALPA publically spanked the Comair pilots for spending too much money in pursuit of a benchmark contract.

Do you have any idea what signal that telegraphed to management as ALPA postured to cut us off? That rag preceded the policy that any further Flight Pay Loss could only be approved by ALPA's Vice President of Finance. Remember, this is during negotiations. And you choose to characterize that as support?

If the Comair pilots didn't step up to the plate and assess themselves 1.5%, we would have had to accept the last management offer on the table which was a worse agreement than what we already had at the time.

So just stop lecturing us about how we should feel privileged to be a part of ALPA. Really, the "ALPA toolbox" is, in fact, full of tools.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Geez! Your big brother wouldn't let you drive his cool 'Vette, so instead of trying to compromise by say, making a couple of his monthly payments for him to share the cost...you screamed "Fratricide!" and sued.

 

[SaturnPilot]

You probably don't remember the ALPA publication Heads Up or as we like to call it at Comair, Heads Up to Management.

It was sent to every ALPA pilot including ALPA management pilots during our negotiations and decried the Comair pilots, as well as a few other "regionals," for overspending their budgets. So during our contract negotiations, ALPA publically spanked the Comair pilots for spending too much money in pursuit of a benchmark contract.

Good luck staying within your budget withOUT ALPA around...you'll be assessing yourself a lot more than 1.5%. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you wouldn't have gotten nearly as good of a contract had it not been for the "toolbox full of tools", as you call it.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Dickie d. blew through his MEC budget like Sherman through Atlanta.

...like Spitzer through hookers.

...like a rumor through NATCO.

...like Limbaugh through pain meds.

 

[jke406]

Dickie d. blew through his MEC budget like Sherman through Atlanta.

...like Spitzer through hookers.

...like a rumor through NATCO.

...like Limbaugh through pain meds.

...like Bill Clinton through fat chicks

...like Obama through a shady real estate deal

...like Prater through his constituents' wishes

 

[N2264J]

ok, so lets say we get rid of ALPA...how is that going to help you acheive brand scope with Delta?

Are you serious? Brand Scope (BS), the product of the Bilateral Scope Impact Committee, ballyhooed as "ALPA's highest priority" eight years ago has gone nowhere. It was a myth - a tradeoff engineered in the front office to kill resolutions designed to put teeth back into ALPA merger/alter ego policy. Had we been successful in 2000, we might have been able to mitigate this alter ego disaster we find ourselves in today. It was BS from the start.

Look, nothing personal - but I suspect I've spent more time as an ALPA MEC officer than you've been an airline pilot. Your advice just isn't that useful to me.

 

[737 Pylt]

Look, nothing personal - but I suspect I've spent more time as an ALPA MEC officer than you've been an airline pilot.

And you still don't know squat!

Your advice just isn't that useful to me.

So sue him! That seems the only thing you girls are good at!

737

 

[SaturnPilot]

Are you serious? Brand Scope (BS), the product of the Bilateral Scope Impact Committee, ballyhooed as "ALPA's highest priority" eight years ago has gone nowhere. It was a myth - a tradeoff engineered in the front office to kill resolutions designed to put teeth back into ALPA merger/alter ego policy. Had we been successful in 2000, we might have been able to mitigate this alter ego disaster we find ourselves in today. It was BS from the start.

Look, nothing personal - but I suspect I've spent more time as an ALPA MEC officer than you've been an airline pilot. Your advice just isn't that useful to me.

you still didn't answer my question as to how getting rid of ALPA will help you acheive your goals. You just seem to be pointing out problems with no resolution.

 

[737 Pylt]

you still didn't answer my question as to how getting rid of ALPA will help you acheive your goals. You just seem to be pointing out problems with no resolution.

His resolution with the rest of the girls from the rjdc was to sue for millions of dollars. Ask him how that worked out for them?

737

 

[PCL_128]

Look, nothing personal - but I suspect I've spent more time as an ALPA MEC officer than you've been an airline pilot. Your advice just isn't that useful to me.

What an arrogant dimwit. If you've been such a tireless volunteer for the Association, then how 'bout giving us a little idea of what positions you've held? (And NO, RJDC wanker doesn't count)

 

[JoeMerchant]

What an arrogant dimwit. If you've been such a tireless volunteer for the Association, then how 'bout giving us a little idea of what positions you've held? (And NO, RJDC wanker doesn't count)

He was attending BOD's and MEC meetings before you were a gleam in the eye of Gulfstream Airlines.....