End ALPA - Begin War

[737 Pylt]

You're looking at the wrong position. JB was Council 112 ST, not MEC ST. His compensation was $0 according to the figures I'm looking at.

OOPS!:blush:
That's the first time I've ever been wrong!:laugh:

737

 

[JoeMerchant]

PCL:
Check this out.....
Asa Mec Str$ 0$ 13,718$ 13,718

So when JB was STR at ASA, he got 13,718 in incentives all for just showing up and stealing notes from meetings!?
Wow, maybe he's right, ALPA is broken, paying a tool like that for nothing!

737

...you really are an idiot....I guess you don't know the difference between LEC and MEC either....

 

[PCL_128]

OOPS!:blush:
That's the first time I've ever been wrong!:laugh:

737

Well, at $0, at least we know they got their money's worth out of him.

 

[Lowrider717]

You're absolutely right. But keep in mind that our current agreement was signed in 1999 ...

Our current CBA was signed in 2001.

 

[PCL_128]

Our current CBA was signed in 2001.

Thanks. I was thinking of the Pinnacle CBA. I corrected the post. The overall point still stands, though.

 

[737 Pylt]

...you really are an idiot....I guess you don't know the difference between LEC and MEC either....

Wow, clever Johnny. Coming from some scumbag who spent 5 years wasting countless $$ for a lawsuit that got his girlfriends nothing, I'll consider that a compliment!

737

 

[weasel_lips]

And the ignorance keeps on coming!

Don't you mean going? ALPA is on the way OUT!

I would like to see a movement at my company to get them off the property.

 

[PCL_128]

Don't you mean going? ALPA is on the way OUT!

No, it was right the first time. Hate to break it to you, but ALPA isn't going anywhere. Thank God.

 

[weasel_lips]

No, it was right the first time. Hate to break it to you, but ALPA isn't going anywhere. Thank God.

The best scam of all would be to get a job at ALPA headquaters.

Even the stinking secretaries make more then most pilots that have ALPA on the property! ($50,000 - $80,000)

Keep those dues coming!

http://www.unionfacts.com/unions/unionOfficers.cfm?id=179&year=2006

 

[PCL_128]

More ignorance. You don't even understand how those figures are calculated. Get educated, and not from that anti-union website.

 

[weasel_lips]

More ignorance. You don't even understand how those figures are calculated. Get educated, and not from that anti-union website.

Sure I do.... Check your paystub moron.

http://www.unionfacts.com/unions/unionOfficers.cfm?id=179&year=2006

 

[PCL_128]

Sure I do.... Check your paystub moron

And that's a perfect demonstration of you not having a fu--ing clue what you're talking about.

 

[Occam's Razor]

ALPA promises things that it can't deliver......

Said the RJDC stooge who couldn't deliver his "promises" to the wankers who gave money to the Noble Cause.

Classic!

 

[Occam's Razor]

Even the stinking secretaries make more then most pilots that have ALPA on the property! ($50,000 - $80,000)

They should be making more than you, if for no other reason than they're smarter than you!

You can't tell the difference between imputed income...and actual income. Take off the tinfoil hat for a second Einstein, and clue-up.

 

[PCL_128]

Careful, Occam, you're using big words for this guy! "Imputed" might as well be ancient Greek to this numb nuts.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Thanks for getting wrapped around the axle so quickly.

But who can explain why pilots would be better off, instead of fixing ALPA's problems, to trash the entire unity between and among airline pilots?

Why would we be better off to be marginalized in the field of aviation safety and turn everything over to the NTSB and FAA?

Why would we be better off to have each individual pilot group struggle to pay for services such as aeromedical that are far more efficiently delivered with costs spread over many thousands instead of a few hundred or maybe a few thousand at best?

Why would isolation pay off ?

Why would management prefer to deal with a few pilots who have no connection with outside labor groups?

C'mon people, these aren't hard questions. How have in-house labor groups fared when faced with adamantly anti-labor management, management that would just as soon scuttle the airline as give in to reasonable labor demands? Ask APA. How'd that strike work out for ya?

Why isn't Mesa or Trans States or NWA demanding to have it's own Pilots Advisory Board instead of ALPA?

The so-called leaders of movements such as USAPA privately acknowledge that they will never have the power to do any more than make suggestions to management and for that gutless mission they'll need 1.8% of your paycheck (plus assessments, oh the assessments), a real savings!

ALPA has real and serious problems - no one has denied that. But the prospect that we dump 75+ years of efforts by thousands of pilots, just because we are too lazy to fix what we've enjoyed is unconscionable.

 

[SaturnPilot]

The best scam of all would be to get a job at ALPA headquaters.

Even the stinking secretaries make more then most pilots that have ALPA on the property! ($50,000 - $80,000)

Keep those dues coming!

http://www.unionfacts.com/unions/unionOfficers.cfm?id=179&year=2006

Genius,

As has been posted numerous times, the salaries described on this website are erroneous. The secretaries at ALPA do not come close to 80,000/year. 5 minutes of your life spent on one phone call could have cleared up that misconception, but apparently you would rather remain ignorant, gathering all of your mental knowledge from one source.

Everyone seems so quick to point out what ALPA is doing wrong, but I have yet to see one workable fix proposed that would be able to do what ALPA does.

This isn't brain surgery...are we stronger standing together or standing alone?

 

[JoeMerchant]

http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2006/05/isnt_it_ironic_.html

Take a look at the comments after the article....especially the second to last comment...

 

[luckytohaveajob]

From:Richard P.
Sent:Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:59 PM
To:'Jack S.
Cc:'....

Subject:Fin

Dear Jack: Please accept this resignation of my position of Captain Representative for Council
32. After much deep soul searching during the past few days, I have come to the conclusion that ALPA as
well as the MEC is broken beyond repair.

In my 33 years in ALPA, I have been on several committees, paid many assessments, fought the
People Express war,walked Eastern picket lines and TWA F/A lines. I also picketed the White House
when Bond was threatening to jail us for violations. This is not the same ALPA. ALPA used to have men
of honor. Now it’s all secret mini-meetings in someone’s room, power tripsand backstabbing.

What I said over and over during this thread and many others.

Here is a 33 year veteran echoing my sentiments exactly.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

ALPA is a democracy. You simply don't have the skills and intelligence to operate in a democracy, so you b--ch and whine like a little kid. Pathetic.

What keeps your blinders on?

Democray by definition follows the majority which ALPA does not. ALPA is a republic. I am never worried about the skills or intelligence of my elected officials.

 

[SaturnPilot]

http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2006/05/isnt_it_ironic_.html

Take a look at the comments after the article....especially the second to last comment...

I agree...the situation sucks for the staffers...so, what's the solution? If ALPA plays less harball with the staffers then people like weasel_lips are going to complain that the staffers make too much money. Do we cut the salary of the president to make everybody feel better? To what? What's your proposed solution, Joe?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Regarding the ALPA President's salary...here is an email I received from a previous AWA MEC Chairman who was on the compensation committee in 2002....




Back in 2002, when I was AWA MEC Chairman, I was automatically a member of the ALPA SCRC (Special Compensation Review Committee) that sets allowances and other disbursement rates for the National officers. The other members of the committee, the MEC Chairmen from ACJazz, COMAIR and DAL, elected me chairman of the committee.

In mid May 2002, we were handed an already written series of ALPA Constitutional amendments that would have dramatically increased the special compensation of all the National officers, Woerth and Attarian. We did not know about the Matt Kernan deal. The package was given to us by ALPA General Manager, Jalmar "$400,000/yr salary" Johnson.

The four of us read and collectively rolled our eyes. It called for an increase of allowances from $96,100 to $125,200. And it codified the "Jerry Mugerditchian Rule," which allowed Matt Kernan to become the highest paid regional turboprop pilot in the world (total compensation package at about $200,000).

We were all aghast and spent a considerable amount of our time just reducing the increases. But I was recalled (with ALPA monitoring the recall meeting with two ALPA VPs and the two top ALPA attorneys) less than 10 days before the 2002 BOD. That's a long and sordid story in itself.

And to make a long story short, once I was ousted and not allowed to make the presentation of the SCRC at the BOD, somehow the SCRC proposal that came out of committee reverted to approximately what Jalmar Johnson presented to us five months earlier. I doubt if a single BOD member had a clue what he/she was voting on.

And so it goes.

xxxx xxxxxx
AWA

 

[PCL_128]

Isn't that Herb's email? The guy is nuts.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Regarding the ALPA President's salary...here is an email I received from a previous AWA MEC Chairman who was on the compensation committee in 2002....




Back in 2002, when I was AWA MEC Chairman, I was automatically a member of the ALPA SCRC (Special Compensation Review Committee) that sets allowances and other disbursement rates for the National officers. The other members of the committee, the MEC Chairmen from ACJazz, COMAIR and DAL, elected me chairman of the committee.

In mid May 2002, we were handed an already written series of ALPA Constitutional amendments that would have dramatically increased the special compensation of all the National officers, Woerth and Attarian. We did not know about the Matt Kernan deal. The package was given to us by ALPA General Manager, Jalmar "$400,000/yr salary" Johnson.

The four of us read and collectively rolled our eyes. It called for an increase of allowances from $96,100 to $125,200. And it codified the "Jerry Mugerditchian Rule," which allowed Matt Kernan to become the highest paid regional turboprop pilot in the world (total compensation package at about $200,000).

We were all aghast and spent a considerable amount of our time just reducing the increases. But I was recalled (with ALPA monitoring the recall meeting with two ALPA VPs and the two top ALPA attorneys) less than 10 days before the 2002 BOD. That's a long and sordid story in itself.

And to make a long story short, once I was ousted and not allowed to make the presentation of the SCRC at the BOD, somehow the SCRC proposal that came out of committee reverted to approximately what Jalmar Johnson presented to us five months earlier. I doubt if a single BOD member had a clue what he/she was voting on.

And so it goes.

xxxx xxxxxx
AWA

I believe every word of this story.

The solution is ALPA has got to be broken down and brought back to the fundamentals of representing members not committees and politicians. And if that takes losing as many MEC as necessary so be it.

 

[PCL_128]

You shouldn't. The author lacks credibility.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

You shouldn't. The author lacks credibility.

No, ALPA lacks credibility. And the below is rock solid concerning credibility.

From:Richard P.
Sent:Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:59 PM
To:'Jack S.
Cc:'....

I have come to the conclusion that ALPA as
well as the MEC is broken beyond repair.

In my 33 years in ALPA,

This is not the same ALPA. ALPA used to have men
of honor. Now it’s all secret mini-meetings in someone’s room, power tripsand backstabbing.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Isn't that Herb's email? The guy is nuts.

Anyone who fights ALPA corruption is "nuts" to you cheerleaders....Would you like to correct any of the information in the email.....In otherwords would you like to present some facts as a counter...or would you like to just throw mud at him....

Shall we go into how the formula was changed at the 2002 BOD.....so that DW didn't have to take a paycut after 911......

 

[JoeMerchant]

You shouldn't. The author lacks credibility.

Why.....because he dares question ALPA....He served as MEC Chairman of a major ALPA carrier.....But since he dares to question some of ALPA's behavior he "lacks credibility"....He is more of what ALPA should be.....

 

[SaturnPilot]

I saw that email on a previous thread. If this guy was taken off the committee before the compensation proposal was brought to the BOD, he still could have brought his points up to the rest of the BOD while they were in plenary to "inform them of what they were voting on", as he says. The entire BOD is given a DETAILED breakdown of National Officer compensation (from the previous BOD and from the current BOD resolution) before and after the compensation committee meets, so they would have seen any changes.

As for Matt Kernan being the highest paid turboprop pilot, that's because he was elected to an officer position not normally held by turboprop pilots...hence not paying turboprop wages. I don't really see how he should make substantially less than the other officers simply because they flew jets. A large majority of the officer's "compensation" is the housing allowance, because of DC's high cost of living.

I read that email as a representative who was unable to convince others of his ideas regarding officer compensation...democracy. Is it a critical priority of the membership to reduce officer compensation, because that was not brought up by the membership of my airline during the last BOD

 

[SaturnPilot]

I believe every word of this story.

The solution is ALPA has got to be broken down and brought back to the fundamentals of representing members not committees and politicians. And if that takes losing as many MEC as necessary so be it.

ok...so, how do you propose bringing ALPA back to the fundamentals of representing members?

Losing MECs is simply going to cause ALPA to go away, not fix it