NWA + DAL Part II

[JOPILOT]

[FONT=Verdana,Helvetica,Arial]By Harry R. Weber[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Helvetica,Arial]Associated Press[/FONT]
Published: Wednesday, March 5, 2008 1:11 p.m. MST


ATLANTA — Pilot union leaders at Delta Air Lines Inc. and Northwest Airlines Corp. were meeting Wednesday in Washington, a hopeful sign that formal negotiations over integrating seniority lists to facilitate a combination of the two carriers could soon resume, two people familiar with the discussions told The Associated Press.
The people, who asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the situation, said the meetings included top leaders of the two unions, but not their full negotiating teams.
Prior to the meetings that started Tuesday in Washington, the two sides had not met since Feb. 21, the two people said.
Several people familiar with the discussions have said the pieces of a deal that would create the world's largest airline are in place, held up only by the lack of a seniority agreement between the pilots at each carrier. Unlike prior airline deals, Atlanta-based Delta and Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest have tried to get their pilots to work out their own integration in advance of any airline combination announcement. Seniority is a major issue for pilots because it determines who gets desirable — and higher-paying — planes, routes, and schedules.

I really wish this would go away, they're back at it. JP

 

[slinky]

hopefully this will go at least a page before the crazies on both sides of the argument drag it down to the gutter. I for one hope we go it alone. If we have to merge, I just hope it is fair.

slinky

 

[Redmeat]

I really wish this would go away, they're back at it. JP

Where have you been? We knew Monday that they were off to meet again.

I'm glad the two sides (especially NW) didn't bring their entire negotiating teams.

I still think the merger is a done deal regardless of what the pilot groups do. I just hope that the two sides can see thru the emotion and realize that this thing can benefit everybody.

If we stomp our feet and take are respective balls home and Wall Street decides the merger still works on paper ($$$), we will lose an unprecedented amount of leverage in the new company.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Well the reps said that NWA had wanted to meet. So, I think that it is only prudent to see what the other side really wants.
I expect this to continue all the way to a deal.

 

[Truckdriver]

Well the reps said that NWA had wanted to meet. So, I think that it is only prudent to see what the other side really wants.
I expect this to continue all the way to a deal.

I agree with ACL. I think this deal will happen so hopefully both sides can work together to make this a good deal we can speak positively about in the future. I think that the pay raises, equity, and international growth opportunities would be a good thing for both groups. I'd love to get a 7-15% raise, 100K in equity, and have the combined airline continue to hire 500+ pilots per year just for growth. If the growth can carry us for 5 years, then retirements will kick back in and things should be good for the DAL/NWA group.

 

[JOPILOT]

"Where have you been? We knew Monday that they were off to meet again."


Sorry, I was where else but on a 4 day where for some reason there is rarely any information supplied as to what's up. Suprise, Suprise. Although, it seems the common banter on the flight line is-if we have such a solid stand alone plan DAL pilots should not compromise.

 

[Redmeat]

Although, it seems the common banter on the flight line is-if we have such a solid stand alone plan DAL pilots should not compromise.

With all the dynamic variables that have an effect on a legacy carrier (price of oil, state of the economy, speculation on the state of the economy, fare competition, LCC base openings...etc.) the only thing 'solid' in this business is the CEO's wallet.

 

[123]

I agree with ACL. I think this deal will happen so hopefully both sides can work together to make this a good deal we can speak positively about in the future. I think that the pay raises, equity, and international growth opportunities would be a good thing for both groups. I'd love to get a 7-15% raise, 100K in equity, and have the combined airline continue to hire 500+ pilots per year just for growth. If the growth can carry us for 5 years, then retirements will kick back in and things should be good for the DAL/NWA group.

Truck,

I agree. I am hopeful that a deal can be struck between the two pilot groups. We, as a Union, have a great opportunity here to capitalize from wall streets goal of airline mergers. I think that the combined company could be a great thing, where we can dilute the fixed costs and overhead over a larger revenue producing company. With such low margins (~10%), we have to be able to increase volume of sales.

I fear that if this deal doesn't happen, when our contracts become amendable, the company will have their arms crossed saying, we aren't making that kind of money and just can't afford those increased costs.:crying: If you would have gone along with our merger, we would be doing so much better, but since the pilots couldn't work things out for themselves, we are still a struggling airline trying to turn a profit is a very competitive industry.:bawling:

 

[Sedona16]

Truck,

I agree. I am hopeful that a deal can be struck between the two pilot groups. We, as a Union, have a great opportunity here to capitalize from wall streets goal of airline mergers. I think that the combined company could be a great thing, where we can dilute the fixed costs and overhead over a larger revenue producing company. With such low margins (~10%), we have to be able to increase volume of sales.

I fear that if this deal doesn't happen, when our contracts become amendable, the company will have their arms crossed saying, we aren't making that kind of money and just can't afford those increased costs.:crying: If you would have gone along with our merger, we would be doing so much better, but since the pilots couldn't work things out for themselves, we are still a struggling airline trying to turn a profit is a very competitive industry.:bawling:

I am still not a fan of the merger but one point in favor along with the pay raises and equity already mentioned is if in fact the combined airline is able to make more money then in four years (maybe sooner) it would be easier to ask for a bigger raise.

Having said that I hope the other sections are left open for further negotiation (ie reserve rules, sick days/pay, vacation, rigs, etc) in 2009 or sooner.

 

[General Lee]

OKAY, I want to say it.......but......um....okay. I hope for a fair merger if one happens.....

The NWA guys supposedly asked for this meeting, so hopefully they came down off of their original stance, whatever that was.

Good luck to ALL, even my Canuk Hoser "brothers" up North.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[tomgoodman]

They're ready either way

I fear that if this deal doesn't happen, when our contracts become amendable, the company will have their arms crossed saying, we aren't making that kind of money and just can't afford those increased costs.:crying: If you would have gone along with our merger, we would be doing so much better, but since the pilots couldn't work things out for themselves, we are still a struggling airline trying to turn a profit is a very competitive industry.:bawling:

And if it does happen, they will say "this merger cost us a bundle, the returns aren't what we expected, and you just got a pay raise, so therefore....." :crying: :bawling:

 

[123]

And if it does happen, they will say "this merger cost us a bundle, the returns aren't what we expected, and you just got a pay raise, so therefore....." :crying: :bawling:

Yeah, but then we can beat them silly :smash: over the fact that they were the brilliant executives that said this was such a great deal. Not that it will do anything.... but at least our negotiatons would be starting at a dollar figure.

 

[Sedona16]

And if it does happen, they will say "this merger cost us a bundle, the returns aren't what we expected, and you just got a pay raise, so therefore....." :crying: :bawling:

If history is any indicator I would say you are spot on. Of course there is never a good time financially for the company to give mony. They have an excuse book a mile long on why the sky is falling even if they were making ten billion a quarter.

 

[ultrarunner]

I bet the USAir guys are on the phone with the NWA reps telling them not to back off on DOH!

 

[General Lee]

I bet the USAir guys are on the phone with the NWA reps telling them not to back off on DOH!

They are the ones who wanted to restart the talks. Maybe knowing 4-6 (6 with negotiations) more years of substandard pay and workrules just wasn't going to cut it for some, while they wait for a plane that hasn't had it's first test flight yet. (At least they still have the -9s)

Bye Bye--General Lee