General...Do you actually work for DAL? At this point we are wondering.
For everyone else....this deal will go thru with our input or without. Which would you prefer?
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NWA + DAL Part II
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General...Do you actually work for DAL? At this point we are wondering.
For everyone else....this deal will go thru with our input or without. Which would you prefer?
As a Delta guy, I just want a fair deal. That has a different meaning to many people involved. However, if I fly with a NWA person down the road, I hope we can enjoy some beers together on the road as this job should be more fun than many make it out to be. First round is on me! Lets hope if we merge, it is the best deal for all pilots involved and we can have a common/strong voice in future negotiations. Should not be this complicated. Cheers.
jayme
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I'm not sure what you're getting at here. What are you saying about the 787s and DC9s?
This is the first time you've mentioned those planes.:erm:
uke:From the NWA side...thanks for the kind thoughts. I agree.
Truckdriver
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I think most of us at both DAL and NWA feel the same way. The fact is that this deal will go down with or without our support. I know they are saying it won't unless we get on board, but there are too many folks poised to make alot of coin even if the merged entity is a total mess. I think we should all realize that we can get 7-15% closer to what rates should be, a good size equity chunk, and hopefully work for an airline that will have some good widebody growth that will makeup for the seniority that some may lose in the deal. I'm at the bottom of the DAL list and am sure I won't be happy with what happens to my seniority and career expectations. However, the same thing will happen to us if we don't get on board and we'll get nothing but an arbitrators award that won't include pay raises and equity.
Yuppyguppy
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Thanks 800Dog. I too hope that the potential of this merger is realized.
I'm a laid back guy as well, and if we ever fly together sounds as if we'll get along just fine.
Superpilot92
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Clacker
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Wow!
This is the most congenial thread I have read in quite sometime, and I agree with the general consensus. If mergers are inevitable, then we had better get the best deal from management for the combined pilot group. A little pain now might be better than what awaits us in a few years if we don't do it...
This is the most congenial thread I have read in quite sometime, and I agree with the general consensus. If mergers are inevitable, then we had better get the best deal from management for the combined pilot group. A little pain now might be better than what awaits us in a few years if we don't do it...
Superpilot92
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Its nice to see a good thread for once. It gets really old when you have people who do nothing but come on and try to flame others. If this is going to happen we need to be 1 solid pilot group.
General Lee
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Last edited:
Funny thing is he's not joking. He wants the DAL/NWA pilot merger the same way. "I'll take the first two, give one and take the other".
Just life I guess.
So if my math is correct a guy who has been at Delta for 24 months flying the 737 would make roughly $99 per hour (immediate 7% pay bump on all rates followed by 4% the second year)?
A 24 month guy in the most jr airplane (DC9) would make $85/hr instead of $70/hr with current rates/longevity if I am understanding this correctly.
Top pay would be $227/hr. A far cry from top major airline pay of $365/hr back in 2000.
I wonder if the percent increases based on previous years profit margins will also still be in effect?
Is it still going to be 11% more for retirement or is this going up too? Somewhere I heard 14%. I have heard the equity to each pilot ranging anywhere from $30k to $100k.
A 24 month guy in the most jr airplane (DC9) would make $85/hr instead of $70/hr with current rates/longevity if I am understanding this correctly.
Top pay would be $227/hr. A far cry from top major airline pay of $365/hr back in 2000.
I wonder if the percent increases based on previous years profit margins will also still be in effect?
Is it still going to be 11% more for retirement or is this going up too? Somewhere I heard 14%. I have heard the equity to each pilot ranging anywhere from $30k to $100k.
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~~~^~~~
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Sedona:
This is not the response you want, but the Reps have been communicating that this is a package deal. For the line guys to see the contract there has to be a SLI deal. Everything has to be agreed to before the details are sent out prior to membership ratification. There are four parts to the plan and all four parts have to be in place, or the plan never even goes to Kinko's.
The reason no one is going to get the details prior to SLI is because of the threat of arbitration / litigation. Any contract details, or notes on seniority integration, would be used as evidence in any subsequent legal proceeding.
-----^^^ Fact ---- vvvv rumors ----
Talking rumors, your $99 figure sounds correct if the -700 rate and -800 rates are made the same. The 767 rates would be $102 and hour, which is not much of an increase for a jet with more than twice the capacity. Still it is a decent bump in pay from NWA's $81.
I'm also hearning an increase in the range you are talking about on the retirement/401K contribution. (from current book to 14%?)
Overall, the raise for the NWA pilots is pretty darned big. Using the 757; 26% plus the contribution is somewhere in the range of 35 to 40% depending on how their 0 to 5% B fund contribution works. For NWA new hires going from $30 to $50, plus 14%, the calculator says 50-30=20 20/30 is 66%, plus 14%, for an 80% raise. Effectively $30 and change to $57 and change - nearly double. Second year their pay would be at least $23 more with the benefits.
The pay raise for Delta pilots is less than combined inflation on the rates negotiated in bankruptcy. If there is not any mechanism to protect junior Delta pilots, there will be significant pay cuts with displacements. So far, the third hand rumors are all "no fences." So if you want a Boeing of any kind you better get it now and become an expert on reserve staffing rules. You'll get to enjoy at least 5 to 6 years on reserve, if you don't get displaced. Hopefully they are keeping NWA's 75 hour reserve guarantee. (Frankly, for junior Delta pilots, this deal has NO silver lining its at least a five to seven year step backwards)
Without fences and with such a diverse fleet (& pay) the airline is going to have a hard time keeping all the pilots out of the schoolhouse every other year. I wonder how they plan to keep the DC9 staffed since some NWA guys will surely find a $26 to $35+ an hour raise compelling to fly the ER out of a base that does not require the shovelling of snow.
I wish the "Fair Plan" I posted could get some traction. But it seems like neither side is including ideas from the peanut gallery, even good ideas.
As rumored, I can not see a single reason why any Delta pilot would be inclined to vote in favor of this merger, except for the threat of a cram down if the vote isn't yes.
There is no carrot, only stick. Tom Goodman is wise to point out that we should not count on management promises of growth (although the current 777 order and some 737's look pretty certain).
This is not the response you want, but the Reps have been communicating that this is a package deal. For the line guys to see the contract there has to be a SLI deal. Everything has to be agreed to before the details are sent out prior to membership ratification. There are four parts to the plan and all four parts have to be in place, or the plan never even goes to Kinko's.
The reason no one is going to get the details prior to SLI is because of the threat of arbitration / litigation. Any contract details, or notes on seniority integration, would be used as evidence in any subsequent legal proceeding.
-----^^^ Fact ---- vvvv rumors ----
Talking rumors, your $99 figure sounds correct if the -700 rate and -800 rates are made the same. The 767 rates would be $102 and hour, which is not much of an increase for a jet with more than twice the capacity. Still it is a decent bump in pay from NWA's $81.
I'm also hearning an increase in the range you are talking about on the retirement/401K contribution. (from current book to 14%?)
Overall, the raise for the NWA pilots is pretty darned big. Using the 757; 26% plus the contribution is somewhere in the range of 35 to 40% depending on how their 0 to 5% B fund contribution works. For NWA new hires going from $30 to $50, plus 14%, the calculator says 50-30=20 20/30 is 66%, plus 14%, for an 80% raise. Effectively $30 and change to $57 and change - nearly double. Second year their pay would be at least $23 more with the benefits.
The pay raise for Delta pilots is less than combined inflation on the rates negotiated in bankruptcy. If there is not any mechanism to protect junior Delta pilots, there will be significant pay cuts with displacements. So far, the third hand rumors are all "no fences." So if you want a Boeing of any kind you better get it now and become an expert on reserve staffing rules. You'll get to enjoy at least 5 to 6 years on reserve, if you don't get displaced. Hopefully they are keeping NWA's 75 hour reserve guarantee. (Frankly, for junior Delta pilots, this deal has NO silver lining its at least a five to seven year step backwards)
Without fences and with such a diverse fleet (& pay) the airline is going to have a hard time keeping all the pilots out of the schoolhouse every other year. I wonder how they plan to keep the DC9 staffed since some NWA guys will surely find a $26 to $35+ an hour raise compelling to fly the ER out of a base that does not require the shovelling of snow.
I wish the "Fair Plan" I posted could get some traction. But it seems like neither side is including ideas from the peanut gallery, even good ideas.
As rumored, I can not see a single reason why any Delta pilot would be inclined to vote in favor of this merger, except for the threat of a cram down if the vote isn't yes.
There is no carrot, only stick. Tom Goodman is wise to point out that we should not count on management promises of growth (although the current 777 order and some 737's look pretty certain).
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ExAF
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