PNCL arbitration info

[suupah]

can any post a link to some 3rd party material regarding the arbitration that the pncl pilots won last week? I can't find anything on it, not even on the ALPA site.

 

[flyf15]

The won it? Thats awesome!

Anyone know what the remedy is going to be?

 

[dingo222]

Anyone know what the remedy is going to be?

KY, 2 motrin, and call back in 2 more years, lol

 

[PCL_128]

The won it? Thats awesome!

Anyone know what the remedy is going to be?

The ruling stated that Pinnacle was in violation of Section 1.F of the agreement. This is the section that requires management to negotiate with ALPA for a seniority integration after a merger. In plain English, the company is required to merge the seniority lists. They'll be given time to negotiate as to how the lists are merged, but the end result will be a single list. It was a major victory for ALPA.

 

[sinkrate]

PCL 128's post is not quite correct. I have not heard of Arbitators rulings being published anywhere. The MEC may publish a brief summary of the ruling, to its own pilot group. It would be very inflammatory to management to publish such rulings. The Arbitrator ruled that

1-Pinnacle Corp is a successor to Pinnacle Inc.
2-ALPA's Agreement with Pinnacle Inc also binds Pinnacle Corp.
3-The Agreement requires Pinnacle Inc/Corp to meet with ALPA and negotiate 'fences' around all acquisitions.

For a remedy the Arbitrator ordered Corp/Inc to meet with ALPA and enter negotiations for the appropriate fences.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

KY, 2 motrin, and call back in 2 more years, lol

And a midol. Seems to be in great need around here, lol!

 

[CoATP]

For a remedy the Arbitrator ordered Corp/Inc to meet with ALPA and enter negotiations for the appropriate fences.

And the aribtrator retains controls so the company cannot procrastinate forever [only a couple of years]
This is the biggest part as it means ALPA does not have to persue anything else if company doesn't follow through.

 

[suupah]

Fair enough. How do Colgan pilots get information on how this affects them?

 

[DoinTime]

PCL 128's post is not quite correct. I have not heard of Arbitators rulings being published anywhere. The MEC may publish a brief summary of the ruling, to its own pilot group. It would be very inflammatory to management to publish such rulings.

Arbitrators decisions are public record. They can be found archived in most law libraries that have a focus on labor law. Besides....who cares if management find it inflammatory?

For a remedy the Arbitrator ordered Corp/Inc to meet with ALPA and enter negotiations for the appropriate fences.

No quiet true. The arbitrators ruling is that Pinnacle Holdings comply with section 1.F.2 of the Pinnacle Pilots CBA.

1.F.2 reads:

"Upon the announcement of a transaction which will or may result in the acquisition of another airline by the Company or the consolidation of the Company with another airline, the parties will meet promptly to negotiate an appropriate fence agreement and/or to implement a seniority integration process as described in subsection F.1., above. During the period between the announcement of any transaction described in the preceding sentence and the earlier of (1) agreement between the parties on a fence agreement, (2) a completed and implemented seniority integration, or (3) the operational merger of the entities, no pilot who is furlough protected pursuant to subsections B.2. and C.1. will be furloughed as a result of such transaction."

 

[Smarta$$]

Major win for airline pilots.

 

[gearupflapsup]

PCL 128's post is not quite correct.

Yes, PCL's characterization is EXACTLY correct and you should refrain from wild speculation. The decision , which I am looking at indicates a violation of 1.F and directs the company to comply with same.

System Board members (3) must put a final signature , then the decision will be published. Since a single executed copy has to exist the document is circulating from the Arbitrator who has signed it, to the ALPA Board Member (Who signed it ) to the Company guy, who will sign it in dissent.

This is important stuff. A lot of pilots quality of life depends upon it. If you don't know, don't embellish.

Good job PCL 128.

 

[Fred Rogers]

Fair enough. How do Colgan pilots get information on how this affects them?

what he said. Information from PCL ALPA would be greatly appreciated on our end.

 

[Fred Rogers]

And a midol. Seems to be in great need around here, lol!

Box office, your boob line is great. I think I might be getting a crush on you. I never thought about looking at boobs during chop, but now I realize I can THANK God for turbulence rather than curse him for it.
-----
ATC: Colgan 4812, caution for wake turbulence you're following a heavy boeing 777.

ME: My copilot's pretty hot today, I think we can pick up the speed for you.

 

[ChickenSled]

All your Q-400's are belong to us.

Fair enough. How do Colgan pilots get information on how this affects them?

It means you no vote guys need to man up and get on board helping the Pinnacle pilots get a good contract. Because guess what, when the fences fall in 1-2 years, it will be your contract.

To the 49.5% who voted yes, that comment was not directed at you, and thanks for doing the right thing.

 

[DoinTime]

what he said. Information from PCL ALPA would be greatly appreciated on our end.

Information would be great to flow freely between our groups but the problem is that with you guys being unorganized there is no point of contact within your group nor do we have an effective vehicle to transmit that information.

This process will likely take some time. I hope that your next organizing drive is successful so that we can work together in making this happen.

 

[spitfire1940]

One problem with Colgan pilots is that many of us are just trying to get out our time and get out as fast as possible.

That kills long-term perspective and any desire to invest time or risk your neck to make it a better place.

Still, even with that, the ALPA vote just barely failed.

I wish we had some contacts to the Pinnacle guys just so we could begin regarding each other as members of the same team.

Are we on the same team?

 

[dustrpilot]

One problem with Colgan pilots is that many of us are just trying to get out our time and get out as fast as possible.

That kills long-term perspective and any desire to invest time or risk your neck to make it a better place.

Still, even with that, the ALPA vote just barely failed.

I wish we had some contacts to the Pinnacle guys just so we could begin regarding each other as members of the same team.

Are we on the same team?

Yep. Everybody act like adults and this WILL work.

 

[Smarta$$]

Fair enough. How do Colgan pilots get information on how this affects them?

Ask your union rep.

 

[BoilerUP]

Perhaps somebody in the Colgan pilot group could, you know, take a little initiative on behalf of their colleagues and open a line of communication with PNCL ALPA for the inevitable SLI?

Just a thought...

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Information would be great to flow freely between our groups but the problem is that with you guys being unorganized there is no point of contact within your group nor do we have an effective vehicle to transmit that information.

This process will likely take some time. I hope that your next organizing drive is successful so that we can work together in making this happen.

Wow.

Allow me to parodyphrase this:

"Because you are not ALPA, we won't bother to work with you."

That might be some of the arrogant attitude that has turned some people off.

No they don't have a union, yes it'll make communication harder. Not unworthy, however.

*I am pro-ALPA and have been a volunteer.

 

[suupah]

Ask your union rep.

you're an a**hole. everything that comes out of your mouth is sarcastic and snide. good luck with that.

 

[PCL_128]

Wow.

Allow me to parodyphrase this:

"Because you are not ALPA, we won't bother to work with you."

That might be some of the arrogant attitude that has turned some people off.<font size="1">

You know that's not what he said at all. Not even close. Who is PCL ALPA supposed to communicate through? Which method of distribution can they use to get the word out to all the CJC pilots? You think the company will provide an email or phone list? Think again. It's not that PCL ALPA doesn't want to communicate with the CJC pilots, it's that it's nearly impossible without a communications conduit.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

You know that's not what he said at all. Not even close. Who is PCL ALPA supposed to communicate through? Which method of distribution can they use to get the word out to all the CJC pilots? You think the company will provide an email or phone list? Think again. It's not that PCL ALPA doesn't want to communicate with the CJC pilots, it's that it's nearly impossible without a communications conduit.

How did anything ever get done without this series of tubes called the internets?

I hope that your next organizing drive is successful so that we can work together in making this happen.

I read that as, "We can't work together until you are ALPA."

How did PCL communicate with CJC before the vote? Maybe the arbitrator can give some relief on that issue.

 

[ualdriver]

Glad to hear that potential whipsaw has been eliminated!

So what happens with the Colgan guys when they are integrated? Do they remain "non-union" so to speak or will all the pilots fall under Pinnacle's CBA? I assume the latter?

ualdriver

 

[SaturnPilot]

How did anything ever get done without this series of tubes called the internets?



I read that as, "We can't work together until you are ALPA."

How did PCL communicate with CJC before the vote? Maybe the arbitrator can give some relief on that issue.

they communicated through the colgan volunteers on the organizing committee. Since you currently do not have an active organizing committee sending out information with everybody's contact info, PCL ALPA has a very difficult time getting you information.

Try not to get offended at statements like those above. All DoinTime is saying is that with an elected group of leaders, it will be much easier to communicate with Colgan pilots and determine priorities of both groups...otherwise the logistics are difficult. I don't believe he meant anything harsh by his statement.

Keep in mind PCL ALPA still hasn't gotten details out to PCL pilots as everything is still going through the lawyers.

That might be some of the arrogant attitude that has turned some people off.

the next union drive is likely to be filled with arrogant attitudes on both sides. An informed vote will ignore them and decide based on the facts...hopefully everyone will seek to be more informed this time.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
The biggest issue facing Colgan Air pilots is having to live with consequences and short-sighted actions of some of their fellow pilots last summer.
It would be in the best interest of Colgan/PNCL to establish some dialogue with former members of the ALPA organizing group that are still on the seniority list. The best tactic would be for both sides to try and delay implementation of any decisions coming out of the recent ruling.
Colgan's pilots worst case scenario is going to be having Colgan Air mgmt. negotiating with PNCL ALPA. The end result of that might very well be some form of a "staple job". The extent to which that can be mitigated by having a unionized Colgan Pilot group cannot be predicted with certainty. However, I think that it would be far more favorable than the former scenario. Colgan mgt. will sell CJC's pilots down a river to keep the operation running, even if they claim they will be acting in the pilot's best interest.
I strongly urge Colgan pilots to try have some control over their destiny and really get the vote unanimous for ALPA this August.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[TurboAWD]

One problem with Colgan pilots is that many of us are just trying to get out our time and get out as fast as possible.

Many regional pilots feel that way. While moving forward in your career is a laudable goal, not focusing on the long term and moving this profession as a whole upward is very dangerous.

As far as communicating with Colgan pilots, as Doin Time mentioned, that is very difficult given their unorganized status, despite what some of the whiners above would suggest. Which brings up something else: why do you expect ALPA pilots to use their time, resources and money to communicate anything to you? ALPA does make an effort, but it is not and can not be a high priority when there are barely enough volunteers to get the high-priority work done at their own airline.

You want a dialog with pilots from other airlines? Vote yes to your next organizing drive (ALPA or not).

Turbo

 

[Fred Rogers]

Think again. It's not that PCL ALPA doesn't want to communicate with the CJC pilots, it's that it's nearly impossible without a communications conduit.

Let me offer a suggestion...

www.alpa.org/colgan

has not been updated in MONTHS. It's an ALPA website, and even a mention of an update on there via flightinfo etc. would create well informed pilots at colgan. Rumors spread around here like wildfire. A letter from Scott E. on www.alpa.org/colgan on what this all means would be a great start.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

One problem with Colgan pilots is that many of us are just trying to get out our time and get out as fast as possible.

Professionals make the place better than they found it when they leave..... are you in this profession to serve it... or "get yours"

 

[Smarta$$]

Professionals make the place better than they found it when they leave..... are you in this profession to serve it... or "get yours"

Well said.