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PNCL arbitration info

PCL_128

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Wow.

Allow me to parodyphrase this:

"Because you are not ALPA, we won't bother to work with you."

That might be some of the arrogant attitude that has turned some people off.<font size="1">
You know that's not what he said at all. Not even close. Who is PCL ALPA supposed to communicate through? Which method of distribution can they use to get the word out to all the CJC pilots? You think the company will provide an email or phone list? Think again. It's not that PCL ALPA doesn't want to communicate with the CJC pilots, it's that it's nearly impossible without a communications conduit.
 

ImbracableCrunk

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You know that's not what he said at all. Not even close. Who is PCL ALPA supposed to communicate through? Which method of distribution can they use to get the word out to all the CJC pilots? You think the company will provide an email or phone list? Think again. It's not that PCL ALPA doesn't want to communicate with the CJC pilots, it's that it's nearly impossible without a communications conduit.
How did anything ever get done without this series of tubes called the internets?

I hope that your next organizing drive is successful so that we can work together in making this happen.
I read that as, "We can't work together until you are ALPA."

How did PCL communicate with CJC before the vote? Maybe the arbitrator can give some relief on that issue.
 

ualdriver

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Glad to hear that potential whipsaw has been eliminated!

So what happens with the Colgan guys when they are integrated? Do they remain "non-union" so to speak or will all the pilots fall under Pinnacle's CBA? I assume the latter?

ualdriver
 

SaturnPilot

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How did anything ever get done without this series of tubes called the internets?



I read that as, "We can't work together until you are ALPA."

How did PCL communicate with CJC before the vote? Maybe the arbitrator can give some relief on that issue.
they communicated through the colgan volunteers on the organizing committee. Since you currently do not have an active organizing committee sending out information with everybody's contact info, PCL ALPA has a very difficult time getting you information.

Try not to get offended at statements like those above. All DoinTime is saying is that with an elected group of leaders, it will be much easier to communicate with Colgan pilots and determine priorities of both groups...otherwise the logistics are difficult. I don't believe he meant anything harsh by his statement.

Keep in mind PCL ALPA still hasn't gotten details out to PCL pilots as everything is still going through the lawyers.
That might be some of the arrogant attitude that has turned some people off.
the next union drive is likely to be filled with arrogant attitudes on both sides. An informed vote will ignore them and decide based on the facts...hopefully everyone will seek to be more informed this time.
 

Kaman

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Hello,
The biggest issue facing Colgan Air pilots is having to live with consequences and short-sighted actions of some of their fellow pilots last summer.
It would be in the best interest of Colgan/PNCL to establish some dialogue with former members of the ALPA organizing group that are still on the seniority list. The best tactic would be for both sides to try and delay implementation of any decisions coming out of the recent ruling.
Colgan's pilots worst case scenario is going to be having Colgan Air mgmt. negotiating with PNCL ALPA. The end result of that might very well be some form of a "staple job". The extent to which that can be mitigated by having a unionized Colgan Pilot group cannot be predicted with certainty. However, I think that it would be far more favorable than the former scenario. Colgan mgt. will sell CJC's pilots down a river to keep the operation running, even if they claim they will be acting in the pilot's best interest.
I strongly urge Colgan pilots to try have some control over their destiny and really get the vote unanimous for ALPA this August.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead
 

TurboAWD

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One problem with Colgan pilots is that many of us are just trying to get out our time and get out as fast as possible.

Many regional pilots feel that way. While moving forward in your career is a laudable goal, not focusing on the long term and moving this profession as a whole upward is very dangerous.

As far as communicating with Colgan pilots, as Doin Time mentioned, that is very difficult given their unorganized status, despite what some of the whiners above would suggest. Which brings up something else: why do you expect ALPA pilots to use their time, resources and money to communicate anything to you? ALPA does make an effort, but it is not and can not be a high priority when there are barely enough volunteers to get the high-priority work done at their own airline.

You want a dialog with pilots from other airlines? Vote yes to your next organizing drive (ALPA or not).

Turbo
 

Fred Rogers

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Think again. It's not that PCL ALPA doesn't want to communicate with the CJC pilots, it's that it's nearly impossible without a communications conduit.
Let me offer a suggestion...

www.alpa.org/colgan

has not been updated in MONTHS. It's an ALPA website, and even a mention of an update on there via flightinfo etc. would create well informed pilots at colgan. Rumors spread around here like wildfire. A letter from Scott E. on www.alpa.org/colgan on what this all means would be a great start.
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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One problem with Colgan pilots is that many of us are just trying to get out our time and get out as fast as possible.

Professionals make the place better than they found it when they leave..... are you in this profession to serve it... or "get yours"
 

JoeMerchant

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Professionals make the place better than they found it when they leave..... are you in this profession to serve it... or "get yours"
Which camp do you think most ALPA pilots fall into today? Honest answer....no spin please.....
 

PCL_128

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What, you aren't going to comment on ALPA's big victory here, John? No admission that ALPA can make a difference? Maybe you should go read an old RJDC "update" for comfort.
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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Which camp do you think most ALPA pilots fall into today? Honest answer....no spin please.....
Joe,

I think most ALPA pilots, most professionals and you, are like most people in our country and culture....


Most pilots got into this profession for the QOL and pay... they certainly didn't become pilots to volunteer thier time and become political activists for the very profession they expect to deliver the QOL and pay....
 

JoeMerchant

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What, you aren't going to comment on ALPA's big victory here, John? No admission that ALPA can make a difference? Maybe you should go read an old RJDC "update" for comfort.
Actually this is a great victory....I have always supported single lists on the property of a holding company.....I supported that when ASA and CMR were bought by Delta.....In fact the ASA and CMR MECs filed a similar grievance based on the same boilerplate language when Delta bought ASA and CMR....but ALPA wouldn't pursue it because they said it was without merit.....

I now support a single list with the Skywest pilots, but feel that ALPA is opposed to negotiating it unless Skywest votes in ALPA first because they are afraid of a new representational vote for the combined list.....

Again this is a good thing....I would like to see a single list here at ASA/Skywest......
 

JoeMerchant

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Joe,

I think most ALPA pilots, most professionals and you, are like most people in our country and culture....


Most pilots got into this profession for the QOL and pay... they certainly didn't become pilots to volunteer thier time and become political activists for the very profession they expect to deliver the QOL and pay....
I agree.....I did the volunteer thing and put my trust in ALPA....However I now realize that most of us are going to look out for number one....Kinda defeats the whole purpose of "collective" bargaining........

Communism looks great on paper......but it doesn't work in the real world of enlightened self interest....
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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I agree.....I did the volunteer thing and put my trust in ALPA....However I now realize that most of us are going to look out for number one....Kinda defeats the whole purpose of "collective" bargaining........
A contridiction ......

So really this was a realization problem on your part.... each man is going to look out for his own intrests but you thought DALPA would look out for your intrest and and thier own? Why?

Does CA care about NY? Does the NY congressman say "I want to look out for CA!"

Sorry you had an expectation problem Joe.
Sorry you didn't understand how representational democracy works...

Sounds like you have problems.. whty blame ALPA.
 

JoeMerchant

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A contridiction ......

So really this was a realization problem on your part.... each man is going to look out for his own intrests but you thought DALPA would look out for your intrest and and thier own? Why?

Does CA care about NY? Does the NY congressman say "I want to look out for CA!"

Sorry you had an expectation problem Joe.
Sorry you didn't understand how representational democracy works...

Sounds like you have problems.. whty blame ALPA.
Well Rez....we can ALL benefit if we work together on the scope issue.....The mainline folks have actually lost the most on this issue.....But it is clear they have no intention of working on this together....

I don't have any problem....I realize that ALPA is a failure now and am enjoying watching you cheerleaders try to defend it.....More popcorn?

By the way have you read the quote at the bottom of my posts yet.....That is what I think of democracy.....It can be very dangerous.......
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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Well Rez....we can ALL benefit if we work together on the scope issue.....
Agreed... however, you have no creditibility... so you say the above but what you mean is this: As a DAL vendor pilot I want more and I think you should give it to me..because we are all ALPA pilots....

For example: you DAL pilots generate say 75% of the revenue.. I generate 25%. But I want 50%



The mainline folks have actually lost the most on this issue.....
We all lost. No doubt the mainline pilots should have been more cooperative... however, it doesn't justify your legal terrorism....


But it is clear they have no intention of working on this together....
No Joe.. its quite clear they don't want to work with you and your kind. Are they obligated to work with Joe bin Legal Laden?

All you did was piss them off with your ways then cry unfair and foul when they rejected you... no responsbility on your part. you are blameless right...

I don't have any problem....I realize that ALPA is a failure now and am enjoying watching you cheerleaders try to defend it.....More popcorn?
Your efforts have proved futile, butterfingers. You've been rejected so natually your reject in return.... For example, most people when they get dumped develop a mutual feeling. Such as "I never liked that girl anyway" Face it Joe... you got dumped by ALPA.

You got dumped by a volunteer organization. That is like getting rejected by the Salvation Army, the Peace Corps or the Red Cross.....
What do many people do in divorce...?? That's right popcorn boy... they sue. Sue for custody, sue for alimony... sue sue sue.... it is the victim way....

Those grapes were proabably sour anyway...right Joe... who wants to belong to a group you have to sue anyway... you certainly don't. But you did.

By the way have you read the quote at the bottom of my posts yet.....
Sure have... it cries out 'I am a victim!"


That is what I think of democracy.....It can be very dangerous.......
No Joe... actually you have benefited from democracy very well... too well in fact..democracy has been too good to you....

See your problem is you have entitlement. You hate the fact that you contribute to the DAL brand but another pilot group has it better...

You take minority rights to the next level....

Your mantra is "the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many..."

and yet you take to the next level...

"the wants of the few shall be the burden of the many"



"Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner"
Nothing but the pathetic cry of a person who has incompetent democracy skills, alienates those he must work with to gain a position and who has claimed victim status for himself..........
 
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