Moving up to management

[Ih8AFYesmen]

First, you sell your soul to Lucifer and then sell out your pilot group. Judas would have made one hell of a airline manager or CEO for that matter. Atleast that's how it's done where I work.

 

[densoo]

Was wondering what it would take to eventually move up to airline management once hired as a pilot at a major?

If you had an MBA and happened to be flying for several years, how hard would it be to get involved in the corporate side of things? If you did, could you still fly a little?

I am thinking about getting an MBA and could see doing that if I was able.

Thanks.

One way:

1. Get hired as a pilot
2. Volunteer for union negotiating committee
3. Sell the pilot group down the river
4. Wait for the call from management to negotiate on the other side of the table

No kidding.

 

[Ben Franklin]

Did the moderators remove some comments on this thread? Why?

The comments were removed because no one on this board cares that you touch yourself in your "tingly spot" six times per day.

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Ben Franklin]

3. Sell the pilot group down the river

While I disagree 1000% with the actions of the person being described here, it was the LEC STATUS REPS who sold the CAL pilots down the river by voting "YES" in the first place to send the TA out for a membership vote.

BTW, the current EWR FO status rep voted "YES" on POS 02.

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[blzr]

Who is more important to an airline, the pilot or the Exec making 500k in the corner office?

Well, the way I see it, on saturdays, sundays, and holidays, I'll bet the corporate office is all but deserted. (I am ofcourse thaking about the MBA's with a PHD in blowing $$$ up a wild hogs ass). The airline seems to function as if more grease was applied to the bearings.

What would happen to an airline if none of the pilots showed up?

I's your job, mr. PHD in wild hogs ass, to sell tickets and create a buisness plan that betters the airline as a whole. If the pilots flew airplanes the way most of you run a company, there would be ALOT of smoking holes out there.

Sorry, too much Scotch, or not quite enough...

 

[pilotyip]

reality?

Because the political arena is already full?

Somewhat seriously, if this person is an honorable man and has some smarts and leadership capabilities, then why not? Isn't that what management is sorely lacking? I do agree though this may be flame bait.

Reality of management and leadership, if someone has the answers it is their duty to step up and make it better. But it is so easy to ignore that reality and throw darts, call names, and think you have all the answers.

 

[Dizel8]

if this person is an honorable man and has some smarts and leadership capabilities, then why not?

People with those qualities generally do not aspire to be management, and if they did make into those ranks, they would either be subverted, fired or hopefully, resign.

Sadly, a few are more than willing to sell their fellows pilots down the river, the company I work for has a few. Interestingly, they came with accolades from their previous fellow pilots, having joined management here, they decided to become pilot unfriendly!

 

[JediNein]

Who is more important to an airline, the pilot or the Exec making 500k in the corner office?

The Exec making 500k in the corner office. There is a reason the exec has the corner office and 500K on the W-2. But even the exec is still working for someone else.

Well, the way I see it, on saturdays, sundays, and holidays, I'll bet the corporate office is all but deserted.

If they're smart and at the top of their careers, they are at home with their families, enjoying their time with their families. If not, and working their way up the ladder, they might be at home, but working. I know of very few execs that take holidays, weekends, and other such days 100% off. Even when off, the brain is still working away at solving whatever crisis or dreaming up some new long term idea to grow the company.

What would happen to an airline if none of the pilots showed up?

It would be a stretch to have none of the pilots show up. Most likely it'd be a bunch of retirees, management pilots, and others that would run a barebones schedule until the airline folded, thus the pilots would not have anywhere to show up to. The pilots would start over at the bottom of the list elsewhere with the corresponding loss of the income, and the execs would find themselves at a similar level or promoted elsewhere with a similar or higher level of income.

Sorry, too much Scotch, or not quite enough...

Not enough. :beer:

Of course I don't like either pilot or exec position, I'd rather be CEO.

 

[PCL_128]

Somewhat seriously, if this person is an honorable man and has some smarts and leadership capabilities, then why not? Isn't that what management is sorely lacking? I do agree though this may be flame bait.

I've seen honorable men try to do these jobs. They end up either losing their honor, or getting fired. Honor and management are mutually exclusive.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

People with those qualities generally do not aspire to be management, and if they did make into those ranks, they would either be subverted, fired or hopefully, resign.

Yes, kind of like politics-most normal people don't have the stomach for it. Your observation about being subverted, fired, or resigning is very keen.

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

BTW to expect any reasonalbe answers on this site is not realistic. Here management and the anti-christ are the same thing.

Actually, the Antichrist is held in higher esteem.

 

[pilotyip]

Dose of reality

The Exec making 500k in the corner office. There is a reason the exec has the corner office and 500K on the W-2. But even the exec is still working for someone else.



If they're smart and at the top of their careers, they are at home with their families, enjoying their time with their families. If not, and working their way up the ladder, they might be at home, but working. I know of very few execs that take holidays, weekends, and other such days 100% off. Even when off, the brain is still working away at solving whatever crisis or dreaming up some new long term idea to grow the company.


It would be a stretch to have none of the pilots show up. Most likely it'd be a bunch of retirees, management pilots, and others that would run a barebones schedule until the airline folded, thus the pilots would not have anywhere to show up to. The pilots would start over at the bottom of the list elsewhere with the corresponding loss of the income, and the execs would find themselves at a similar level or promoted elsewhere with a similar or higher level of income.


Not enough. :beer:

Of course I don't like either pilot or exec position, I'd rather be CEO.

What a lovely dose of reality, but you find it does not fit here, this a pilot centered site.

 

[Longhorn]

Did the moderators remove some comments on this thread? Why?

My bad, I meant to delete another thread for some inappropriate comments made. I clicked on the wrong post. I did not realize that I checked on yours...taken care of.

 

[pilotyip]

Airline Management is a tuff job

This is repeat but if fits here. This is a pilot board so saying anything in defense of management is like peeing into the wind, that it is going to come back to you. CEO's are not intentionally running airlines into the ground. They would very much like to succeed. For lack of other reason it would make their resume look great, they would be doing something no other CEO had ever done. Top management includes many besides the CEO, the CEO sets direction as requested by the board. The CEO has little control over the airline, the airline is run by regulation and union contracts. They are at the mercy of the purchasing public, who with Internet access has made the airline ticket a perfectly elastic commodity. There is little they can do inside their structure. Other high paid top management personnel, in Operations, Maintenance. Marketing, Legal, Finance, etc. have unique skills in dealing with large organizations. This makes them marketable when shopping for a job, unlike pilots whose skills are nearly universal. An issue of ATW in 2002 had an article about “Airline Management a dying breed”, the article basically said no one wants to do it. The good track record CEO’s are going to other industries. With tremendous, payrolls, overhead burdens, and extremely low margins, there is no tried and true path to success. Most have tried to increase market share, but this has lead to low price and ridiculous breakeven load factors in 95% range. What is management supposed to do? Eliminating management will bring the end quicker for the airplane industry, and their salaries are insignificant to the airlines operating costs. Without management you could not operate the airline, The FAA would shut it down without approved Part 119 key management. Would the pilots step up and become management for free in their spare time? Why is it every time, pilot salaries come up, they are immediately compared to top management. I saw an article in ATW in 2001 that stated at DAL there were 17 members of top management made more than the top DAL Captain. The combined top 17 salaries equaled less than 1/6 of 1% of the combined pilot salaries. If management worked for free all pilots in the company would get a 1/10 of 1% raise. (for a $100K per year pilot that would be $3/wk increase in take home) Boy that raise would really make the pilot group happy. Top management possesses skills that allow them to move from job to job and command high salaries. And every one of these managers wants to see his/her airline prosper. They just can not do it.

 

[PCL_128]

They didn't teach you how to write in paragraphs or how to spell when you got that fancy MBA degree?

 

[Dude]

Flight ops departments do not run themselves. I know, just ask management and they'll tell you. Seriously, it is a noble thing to take up: a desk, countless meetings, an enormous budget, middle-of-the-night phone calls, the FAA, SBOAs, hiring, firing, office politics, political correctness at its apex, gaining 25 lbs., drinking more heavily, knowing that every line pilot thinks you're a buffoon and he could do it better, lower paying, working 5+ extra days a month position in management.

Given the job description, you are either unmarried, very amitious, very motivated, OCD, a glutton, miserable, brilliant, or really passionate about enforcing change in an industry that desperately needs it. If you are the later and can do the job and remain intelletually honest and quit the day you have to compromise; then I say, BRAVO and go for it. If not, DO NOT attempt it. Management has important positions to fill and unfortunately, they are filled with self-promoting turds with rare exception.

Good Luck!

 

[KigAir]

CEO's are not intentionally running airlines into the ground. They would very much like to succeed. For lack of other reason it would make their resume look great, they would be doing something no other CEO had ever done.

Which is in contrast to the workerbees(pilots, mechanics...) who would rather see their Company fold than negotiate.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Yes, kind of like politics-most normal people don't have the stomach for it. Your observation about being subverted, fired, or resigning is very keen.

One order of Colin Powell -- coming right up!

 

[pilotyip]

They didn't teach you how to write in paragraphs or how to spell when you got that fancy MBA degree?

That is unfair you knowq I can;t speel. BTW I did not know you were my 2nd grade grammar teacher, you still take your teeth out at night?

 

[LJDRVR]

I am thinking about getting an MBA and could see doing that if I was able.

Thanks.

Please don't take this as an insult, but here's my take:

That you view moving to management as "up" is troubling to say the least. If you have aspirations to be an executive, don't waste your time wrangling airplanes. If you're a pilot, fly the line.

The fact that you are posting on FI for advice on how to become an executive at an airline shows you are likely:

• Not smart enough to make that transition anyway

or...​

• Flaimbait

If your question was serious, what the hell are you asking us morons for? Unless Bill Compton is on FI, nobody here has ever made that jump.

Seriously, what conversation are you going to have with your wife?

"Sweetie, the guys on FI say that Masters Degree is a sure fire fast track to CEO! I'm calling DeVry today!"

My sincere apologies (really) if your question was serious, this just isn't the venue.

Ask your CEO. (Just make sure your ID badge is hidden when you do it.)

Best of luck...