NWA Suspends Hiring?

[FDJ2]

Sorry double post.

 

[General Lee]

I agree with the General (this time that is) The combined carrier will most likely slow down hiring for a while until the plans for consolidation are ironed out and even after they have a defined plan of action, it will take some time to implement (years) The DC-9's will eventually be replaced, not just parked. What will be really interesting to watch will be the dynamics of integration of the two pilot groups, they have the advantage that being both legacy carriers their pilot groups don't have the seniority based problems that the USAirways debacle had. Seniority based (DOH) integration is a possible solution if "pride" doesn't get in the way.
Maybe I'm a "glass half full" kind of guy, but I believe that a great airline could emerge from all of this

DOH integration won't even be close, since it would be a windfall for the NWA guys (something the ALPA merger policy does not allow). Remember, our top 2300 pilots retired to take their lump sums before BK. That left us with a fairly junior pilot group, and I would think a percentage merger would be closer to what will happen. I think the top couple hundred might be all NWA pilots, since they do fly larger planes (744s), but also the bottom couple hundred may be the NWA DC9 FOs and 742FEs. Our airline is larger, with more widebodies total, and we are the ones doing the buying. So, hopefully the MECs can work together for something fair----it will be interesting to see no doubt, if it happens at all.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Deleted

 

[General Lee]

double post

 

[filejw]

Try to remember Anderson was the guy that decided to refurbish the DC9 and keep them....he will use them till the very end.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

General,

I am currently 59% and change at NWA and looking at the combined doh seniority list on ezopenboard.com I would be around 55% so doh or maintaining posistion (a320 capt. resv.) would work for me. I do feel we should get a little credit for the amount of retirements we bring though. We will see.

DOH integration won't even be close, since it would be a windfall for the NWA guys (something the ALPA merger policy does not allow). Remember, our top 2300 pilots retired to take their lump sums before BK. That left us with a fairly junior pilot group, and I would think a percentage merger would be closer to what will happen. I think the top couple hundred might be all NWA pilots, since they do fly larger planes (744s), but also the bottom couple hundred may be the NWA DC9 FOs and 742FEs. Our airline is larger, with more widebodies total, and we are the ones doing the buying. So, hopefully the MECs can work together for something fair----it will be interesting to see no doubt, if it happens at all.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

General,

I am currently 59% and change at NWA and looking at the combined doh seniority list on ezopenboard.com I would be around 55% so doh or maintaining posistion (a320 capt. resv.) would work for me. I do feel we should get a little credit for the amount of retirements we bring though. We will see.

Heyas Cobra,

Yea, my off the cuff calculations show almost exactly the same thing, a 4 percent bump.

OTOH, we have a lot of guys who bid quality of life, as I'm sure there are some at DAL as well, so any type of straight "equipment based" integration will have to back track to figure what everyone COULD hold, versus what they ARE holding.

Personally, I don't see any reason to fence the DAL guys off the 747 if there was a no bump/no flush. If you proffer a buyout plan plan for the top NWA numbers, similar to what the senior DAL guys got, you could do a straight DOH and I'd be willing to bet nobody would move more than a percentage point, up or down.

Besides, last I heard, no one was aquiring anyone, and that it'll be a straight stock swap, with the Frogs coming in only AFTER the deal is done.

Nu

 

[727RedTails]

General,

I would think DOH would be ok for the bottom third as well. I was hired at NWA in Dec 2000 and am on track to retire at seniority 51. We have a lot of senior guys with frozen pensions retiring in the next couple years, which translates into quick upward movement along with the 787's coming online. Delta doesn't have that anymore, you already got your movement from the pension problem. Do you think anyone hired post 9-11 should be senior to anyone else at the other company? If so the merger doesn't seem like to good a deal to me.

 

[JohnDoe]

Well, as a glass-half-empty kind of person and one that spent over 5 years on furlough from said carrier (included that to keep the "never made it to a major and likes to throw the furlough word around" types at bay):

Could it be they hired just enough to cover the 9 flying through the summer, then when the drawdown starts on the 9 and 747-200.......excess bodies and furloughs when retirements don't happen and/or merger does??? Don't forget that age 65 thing. I don't buy the resumption of interviews or hiring after summer or the "just waiting to see how things shake out" one bit.

I am sure somebody will bring up the all-mighty "fleet plan." Isn't that the same one from, what, 1999??

As far as a no-furlough clause goes......NWA no longer has one I believe. Will they expend negotiating capital to get it back?? I am not holding my breath considering the union allowed the company to "flex up" not once but twice (3 times?) with pilots on furlough, which was specifically prohibited by the contract at the time. And no, I don't care that it was only in one or two pieces of equipment.

As far as actually verifying whether the suspension of interviews is true....occam knows by now I am sure.

 

[jetflier]

Do you really think they will just PARK all of the 68 larger DC9s without replacing them? Really? Give up market share and just replace them (even though they have more seats than the DC9-30s and all of those wonderful CR9s or E175s)? Really? NWA said their current hiring takes into account the parking of about 30 DC9-30s this year, and they are still hiring. (or willing to drain their pool).

Those larger DC9s will be replaced eventually (maybe MD90s or new 737NGs), but not overnight. And, any agreements in writing will be enforced, unless there is a BK and a judge is watching. Do you think that will happen immediately too? Do you?

Yes, our no-furlough clause had a Force Mejeur clause, and it was used after 9-11. In fact, they furloughed a bit too many, and after a grievance many were brought back by an arbitrator. It can be enforced and was challenged and our guys won via an arbitrator, with pay.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I agree. NWA has been saying they were going to park the -30's as they came up on certain cycle/overhaul limits since ch 11. It's not because of the merger.
The larger DC-9's and some -30 will continue flying untill a replacement aircraft comes along.
IMO after the merger, an aircraft order for the smaller narrowbodies will happen.

 

[Tanker Clown]

Since when has forward thinking and logic been part of these companies plans? Hire till you furlough....

GL always points to the AW/US Air merger...man, if that's your idea of what a merger should look like....wow.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Deleted...Can anyone sign in the ALPA Board?

 

[General Lee]

General,

I am currently 59% and change at NWA and looking at the combined doh seniority list on ezopenboard.com I would be around 55% so doh or maintaining posistion (a320 capt. resv.) would work for me. I do feel we should get a little credit for the amount of retirements we bring though. We will see.

That's wonderful for you. If you are around 55% in your company, there is a good chance you will be close to that in a merged company, plus or minus for our more numerous widebody captains (we have over 1700 widebody Capatins alone). The key to your statement is the number of retirements you WILL bring, now that age 65 has come. There is a big question mark with that. Maybe the company will offer a buyout of some of your top guys. That could help you out a lot. Can't wait to see what happens...


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General,

I would think DOH would be ok for the bottom third as well. I was hired at NWA in Dec 2000 and am on track to retire at seniority 51. We have a lot of senior guys with frozen pensions retiring in the next couple years, which translates into quick upward movement along with the 787's coming online. Delta doesn't have that anymore, you already got your movement from the pension problem. Do you think anyone hired post 9-11 should be senior to anyone else at the other company? If so the merger doesn't seem like to good a deal to me.

I hope you do have a lot of guys that will go regardless of the age 65 rule in the next few years, but thanks to age 65 that is now murky. As far as who should be in front of whom while hired after 9-11, I don't think so. We hired a bit more than 350 last year (07), and I think you hired 100 or so (??). Maybe those should be DOH, and future hires too including the ones hired this year so far. There are probably so many complex formulas going on here that I really can't say for sure. I just think DOH is obviously not going to work for the MAJORITY of the list, since we lost most of our senior pilots.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JohnDoe]

So back to the original question:

Any confirmation that interviews are/will be stopped?

I find it interesting that occam's razor (who does interviews) was on the forum not long ago today and responded to two other threads regarding NW but not this one.......