Hey Undies and Empty Nipple kids, wanna go to Jetblue?

[aewanabe]

I haven't met a single person here who is happy about this, other than management of course. There are still plenty of qualified pilots who want to come work here; the problem is a kid who graduated Empty-Nipple then flew a 402 for a couple years is likely to think flying a 190 for 43K is a dream job. On the other hand, guys who instructed, flew freight, then spent years slogging it out in the regionals might actually think our skills are worth more, and vote with our feet if the compensation improvements aren't forthcoming.

 

[John Pennekamp]

On the other hand, guys who instructed, flew freight, then spent years slogging it out in the regionals might actually think our skills are worth more, and vote with our feet if the compensation improvements aren't forthcoming.

In case you haven't noticed, pilots that worked their way up like that (as we did) are few and far between these days. These Generation Y (me) kids these days have always had everything handed to them and appreciate nothing. Why should this be any different?

 

[ackattacker]

Take a closer look at the program. These are not going to be 400 hour wonder kids moving straight to JetBlue... Cape air already requires 1500 hours and an ATP to fly the 402 as PIC. So the graduates first have to instruct for a respectable time and THEN fly the 402 for 2 years before being considered. Not such an easy path. In fact it is probably faster to just go to Mesa or Colgan with your 250 hours and then apply to JetBlue after 2 years. I guess that's "slogging it out" but instructing and flying a 402 is the path of the lazy...

 

[CX880]

Take a closer look at the program. These are not going to be 400 hour wonder kids moving straight to JetBlue... Cape air already requires 1500 hours and an ATP to fly the 402 as PIC. So the graduates first have to instruct for a respectable time and THEN fly the 402 for 2 years before being considered. Not such an easy path. In fact it is probably faster to just go to Mesa or Colgan with your 250 hours and then apply to JetBlue after 2 years. I guess that's "slogging it out" but instructing and flying a 402 is the path of the lazy...

You're, right in fact this program is doomed to fail. No respectable Dribbler would be willing to go so far low as to fly a prop. After spending mom's money on FMS classes and Flying Jets 101, nothing less than a jet will suffice.

 

[Whataburger]

Disclaimer: I did not go to either of these schools.

Without pointing fingers, I would rather have a pilot with 2000K hrs flying 402s than pilots with other backgrounds. The days of "paying dues" has come and gone. Slogging it out on the east coast for a while in a prop is about the most "dues paying" you will see now-a-days.

 

[John Pennekamp]

You're, right in fact this program is doomed to fail. No respectable Dribbler would be willing to go so far low as to fly a prop. After spending mom's money on FMS classes and Flying Jets 101, nothing less than a jet will suffice.

Exactly. Besides, they have to bust their asses for two BOS winters at Cape just to be eligible for a final interview at JBLU? Like you said, they'll just take their 300 hours to ASA and fly that Shiny Jet.

 

[CX880]

JB and ER should put a second option, which would be to buy, they'd probably have more luck with that. I'd be amusing just how low people will go for to fly A320.

 

[aewanabe]

Take a closer look at the program. These are not going to be 400 hour wonder kids moving straight to JetBlue... Cape air already requires 1500 hours and an ATP to fly the 402 as PIC. So the graduates first have to instruct for a respectable time and THEN fly the 402 for 2 years before being considered. Not such an easy path. In fact it is probably faster to just go to Mesa or Colgan with your 250 hours and then apply to JetBlue after 2 years. I guess that's "slogging it out" but instructing and flying a 402 is the path of the lazy...

I plead guilty to not scruitinizing the program requirements closely enough. I also have massive respect for the Cape Air guys and gals, and agree that flying a 402 through the crappy NE weather is great experience. I still believe that the end product of such a program is a pilot with no turbine experience who is competitive for JB and nowhere else; that guy/gal will not likely be competitive for NW/DL, UA, CO, Netjets, etc.. and therefore is much less likely to bitch about our compensation structure. This is even more true since coming from Cape Air's 402 left seat to JB's 190 right seat is still a pay raise, whereas RJ captains and military bubbas are taking a significant initial cut to come here- with the full expectation of seeing gains in the future. YMMV, but bottom line most of us see this program as management getting younger, more compliant guys in the new-hire seats.

 

[PCL_128]

Disclaimer: I did not go to either of these schools.


Without pointing fingers, I would rather have a pilot with 2000K hrs flying 402s than pilots with other backgrounds. The days of "paying dues" has come and gone. Slogging it out on the east coast for a while in a prop is about the most "dues paying" you will see now-a-days.

I agree that flying 402s in the Northeast is great experience, but do you really want someone in the right seat of your 175,000 lb jet that has never flown anything bigger than a light twin Cessna?

 

[Tomct]

If they're having trouble getting experienced pilots to apply, then they need to raise EMB pay, get a real B-fund retirement plan, and get rid of those insulting five year employment contracts. Creating some program with Humpty-Diddle while there are still thousands of qualified RJ Captains out there is ridiculous.

Emb pay will come up, but get a B plan...yeah, those have worked out so well for everyone else. According to my friends over there the 5 yr. contract is actually a good thing, especially when it comes to possible mergers. (Mohawk Merger Protection) It seems to me that if the contract is up and they see that some idiot got through their process, then they could get rid of them and move on. Unlike airlines that some of the JackAsses slip through the process and are now stuck to the bottom of the carrier's shoe like a Bad piece of gum. If the "experienced" rj guy wants a job...THEN APPLY! Not Jetblue's problem if they don't because they are waiting around to get hired by a legacy that will then fulough them a short time later. There are some ugly things on the horizon for everyone...and it ain't goin to be pretty. Heaven Help US!:erm:

 

[Tomct]

I agree that flying 402s in the Northeast is great experience, but do you really want someone in the right seat of your 175,000 lb jet that has never flown anything bigger than a light twin Cessna?

That's like saying if you have never flown a heavy don't bother applying to Gemini or World. Let's face it PCL, flying a bigger airplane is NOT THAT BIG OF DEAL! You sound like some of those pompouse Delta Captains that are appalled with new hires going to the ER...because it is such a "Big Deal" to fly a 767. Give me a freakin break and get over yourself's. An airplane is an airplane. And hey...they can also do what every other legacy pilot in the world does....WIND CHECK!!! YGTBSM with your comment. How can you compare flying an RJ to flying a 737 or A320. Not even CLOSE in weight! H3ll, even the CRJ700 only weighted 75,000 lbs.(MTOW) 100K off of an A320. Come On Man...

 

[On Your Six]

I agree that flying 402s in the Northeast is great experience, but do you really want someone in the right seat of your 175,000 lb jet that has never flown anything bigger than a light twin Cessna?

Trans States is hiring kids with 300-400 hours total and 50 hours multi onto the E145. High performance jet like the Airbus/E190 just fewer seats.

 

[PCL_128]

Emb pay will come up,

Not when you've got a bunch of wet-behind-the-ears Humpty Diddle kids with SJS lining up to fly them for current rates.

but get a B plan...yeah, those have worked out so well for everyone else.

You seem not to understand what a B-fund is. You're thinking of A-funds. The guys at JetBlue only get a small 401k match.

According to my friends over there the 5 yr. contract is actually a good thing

Mmmm, taste that kool-aid!

It seems to me that if the contract is up and they see that some idiot got through their process, then they could get rid of them and move on. Unlike airlines that some of the JackAsses slip through the process and are now stuck to the bottom of the carrier's shoe like a Bad piece of gum.

You sure you aren't in management? You sound like a lot of middle-managers that I had to fight constantly to keep from firing pilots that didn't deserve it. The 5-year contract is nothing but an intimidation ploy.

 

[PCL_128]

Trans States is hiring kids with 300-400 hours total and 50 hours multi onto the E145. High performance jet like the Airbus/E190 just fewer seats.

And you think that's a good thing? Remember, I came from the airline that had a high-publicity crash that was the result of two guys who didn't understand why a swept-wing jet couldn't climb to FL410 on a hot day. Putting inexperienced kids into high-performance jets without the proper training isn't a good idea. JetBlue is a major airline. I seriously doubt that they spend the time in ground school teaching their newhires the basics of jet aerodynamics, and they shouldn't have to.

 

[John Pennekamp]

And you think that's a good thing? Remember, I came from the airline that had a high-publicity crash that was the result of two guys who didn't understand why a swept-wing jet couldn't climb to FL410 on a hot day. Putting inexperienced kids into high-performance jets without the proper training isn't a good idea. JetBlue is a major airline. I seriously doubt that they spend the time in ground school teaching their newhires the basics of jet aerodynamics, and they shouldn't have to.

FWIW, that crash occurred not because they didn't understand swept wing aerodynamic, but rather because they didn't understand that you can out climb your cruise capability due to the physics of thrust angle and lift. And the problem wasn't that the CRJ-200 is a "high performance jet" in inexperienced hands, but rather a low performance jet which is significantly underpowered, thus leading to the aforementioned scenario.

Regardless, it's pretty tasteless for you to use that crash to make a point.