Hey Undies and Empty Nipple kids, wanna go to Jetblue?

[DoinTime]

Talk about paying for a job. Not only is this a new low for the industry but also for ERAU. When did getting a GPA over 3.0 qualify a person to fly a 150 seat airliner.

If you can't get a 3.0 at Riddle you are as dumb as a sack of hammers.

 

[spg2bmd]

What the hell is an "empty nipple kid". One that sucked on his mothers teat and found out it was dry cuz she was selling it on the street for 1.25 per oz. then started crying and living a depressed life eventually joining a gang trying to even up the score with anyone that he presumed may or may not have bought some milk? If so, jet blue is not the answer.

 

[Tomct]

And that concern isn't a problem if you hire experienced 121 Captains from the regionals that have been through many part 121 training events already. There are plenty of experienced Captains out there already that are looking for career jobs. Going to Riddle to recruit for major airline pilots is absurd.

Maybe they are not applying to JetBlue. If they feel that JB is not their ticket, the Blue Boys need to get their pilots from somewhere. Of course they will still have to pass all of the evals etc...The General is blowing this WAAAAAAY out of proportion...AS USUAL!

 

[On Your Six]

Give me a break. 400 hour pilots (kids) are flying A320s for Lufthansa in Germany after an intense ab initio program. You see this all over Europe and now the Middle East. Trans States is hiring young kids with something like 350 hours total and 50 hours multi into E145s. Last time I checked, an E145 was automated and high-performance like an Airbus.

The point is that automation has made the transition into airline flying a bit easier. Does that mean that these kids are ready to fly on their own - of course not. Nothing will ever replace good training and, of course, experience. Making sure that an experienced PIC is on hand and that training is reinforced and rigorous will be critical. If JB retains a very good screening process, it should be able to find high-quality candidates among the Cape Air pilots in the program who can cope effectively with the transition. JB does not need to automatically hire anyone from that program - they will screen and only take the cream of the crop among those candidates.

And I agree with another poster, flying single pilot 402s around the Cape and Upstate New York during the winter will improve anyone's skills...

 

[On Your Six]

Here's a great example of a 20 year old flying a 737 in the UK:


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1][SIZE=+1]Teenager pilot's Stansted flights[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]14.01.08[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Holidaymakers flying from Stansted Airport since October last year may have been unaware that the reassuring voice from the cockpit was that of a teenager. Ed Gardner, who turned 20 in December, is thought to be Britain's youngest commercial pilot. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]He got a job at Titan Airways the day after he received his licence and within days was crewing with his father, Bob, 55, a captain.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]At the age of 19, he wasn't old enough to drive a bus, and in most countries he would have been too young to hire a car. Yet, despite his youth, he was cleared to take the controls of a Boeing 737, which holds up to 200 passengers, and for the past three months has been flying tourists off on their holidays.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Mr Gardner, from Great Dunmow, Essex, said: 'I started flying at 14 - that is the youngest you have to be to learn. I flew solo at 16 and got my private pilot's licence on my 17th birthday. My dad never pushed for me to become a pilot but as soon as I said I wanted to do it he was pleased.'[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]He was so keen on flying he was able to pilot an aircraft before he started learning to drive a car. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]After taking his A-levels, he went to the Metropolitan University in London for his air transport pilot's licence written exams, and passed first time. He then went on to Stapleford Flight Centre for instrument rating, another pilot's training course and then Boeing 737 training.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]He received his licence on October 5, and the next day he was training for his job as a first officer with the Stansted Airport based charter airline. His first job with Titan Airways was flying mail between Stansted and Exeter. The first passenger flight he piloted was to Rostock in Germany. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]He said: 'I was excited but you don't really get to interact with the passengers. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]As first officer you do pretty much the same as the captain except you can't taxi on the runway. Of course, the captain is in charge overall but if they fly to Malaga, for example, you get to fly the plane back.'[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Mr Gardner, who has just celebrated his 20th birthday and now regularly flies to the Continent and Africa, played down his achievement at such a young age. He said: 'I think I just came along at the right time.' He added that he had not told his passengers how young he was.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Rob Giles, the 737 fleet manager for Titan Airways, said: 'It is not unheard of at 21 or 22 but most people do something else and then come to flying. Ed is a very competent pilot and ticked all the boxes. It's good getting youngsters into the company - we need some new blood.'[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Statistics from the Civil Aviation Authority for 2004 and 2005 show no teenagers held a commercial pilot's licence. A spokesman for the CAA said that although some 19-year-olds may qualify to fly passenger jets, they may not be get a job until they were older.[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[PCL_128]

Maybe they are not applying to JetBlue. If they feel that JB is not their ticket, the Blue Boys need to get their pilots from somewhere.

If they're having trouble getting experienced pilots to apply, then they need to raise EMB pay, get a real B-fund retirement plan, and get rid of those insulting five year employment contracts. Creating some program with Humpty-Diddle while there are still thousands of qualified RJ Captains out there is ridiculous.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

A couple of comments were made on how the automation has made this job easier...

I disagree. There are still accidnets, incidents and events were pilots screw up with the automation.

Interfacing the automation with high density ATC, MEL's, diverse crews, nasty weather, and multi-legs.. etc...still makes this a challenging job.

Line flying is a job of endurance. A four day trip with 4-5 legs requires automation. (You've heard the complaining when the autoflight is MEL'ed)

the point.... don't sell ourselves short...




on another note:

If they're having trouble getting experienced pilots to apply, then they need to raise EMB pay, get a real B-fund retirement plan, and get rid of those insulting five year employment contracts. Creating some program with Humpty-Diddle while there are still thousands of qualified RJ Captains out there is ridiculous.

Agreed! Probably not going to happen without the JBPA!! Your logic also applies to UAL, NWA and CAL, and they've got ALPA!!!

Regards,

Sloppy Seconds!

 

[John Pennekamp]

"Undies and empty nipples", General? What the hell does that mean? Have you lost it?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Give me a break. 400 hour pilots (kids) are flying A320s for Lufthansa in Germany after an intense ab initio program. You see this all over Europe and now the Middle East. Trans States is hiring young kids with something like 350 hours total and 50 hours multi into E145s. Last time I checked, an E145 was automated and high-performance like an Airbus.

I hate to tell you this, but Embry Riddle, Cape Air and Jet Blue's "screening" process doesn't come close to what a Lufthansa pilot goes thru to get hired as an ab-initio student. You'll disagree, but the only screening Riddle is doing is a bank account one. The rest? Well...

 

[Papps]

Jetblue just wants a piece of the "your actually going to pay me to fly?" market of stupid kids that will do anything to be in an airline cockpit (for the first job of their life). This is a career that is already in the crapper, who cares, its just one more thing.

 

[aewanabe]

I haven't met a single person here who is happy about this, other than management of course. There are still plenty of qualified pilots who want to come work here; the problem is a kid who graduated Empty-Nipple then flew a 402 for a couple years is likely to think flying a 190 for 43K is a dream job. On the other hand, guys who instructed, flew freight, then spent years slogging it out in the regionals might actually think our skills are worth more, and vote with our feet if the compensation improvements aren't forthcoming.

 

[John Pennekamp]

On the other hand, guys who instructed, flew freight, then spent years slogging it out in the regionals might actually think our skills are worth more, and vote with our feet if the compensation improvements aren't forthcoming.

In case you haven't noticed, pilots that worked their way up like that (as we did) are few and far between these days. These Generation Y (me) kids these days have always had everything handed to them and appreciate nothing. Why should this be any different?

 

[ackattacker]

Take a closer look at the program. These are not going to be 400 hour wonder kids moving straight to JetBlue... Cape air already requires 1500 hours and an ATP to fly the 402 as PIC. So the graduates first have to instruct for a respectable time and THEN fly the 402 for 2 years before being considered. Not such an easy path. In fact it is probably faster to just go to Mesa or Colgan with your 250 hours and then apply to JetBlue after 2 years. I guess that's "slogging it out" but instructing and flying a 402 is the path of the lazy...

 

[CX880]

Take a closer look at the program. These are not going to be 400 hour wonder kids moving straight to JetBlue... Cape air already requires 1500 hours and an ATP to fly the 402 as PIC. So the graduates first have to instruct for a respectable time and THEN fly the 402 for 2 years before being considered. Not such an easy path. In fact it is probably faster to just go to Mesa or Colgan with your 250 hours and then apply to JetBlue after 2 years. I guess that's "slogging it out" but instructing and flying a 402 is the path of the lazy...

You're, right in fact this program is doomed to fail. No respectable Dribbler would be willing to go so far low as to fly a prop. After spending mom's money on FMS classes and Flying Jets 101, nothing less than a jet will suffice.

 

[Whataburger]

Disclaimer: I did not go to either of these schools.

Without pointing fingers, I would rather have a pilot with 2000K hrs flying 402s than pilots with other backgrounds. The days of "paying dues" has come and gone. Slogging it out on the east coast for a while in a prop is about the most "dues paying" you will see now-a-days.

 

[John Pennekamp]

You're, right in fact this program is doomed to fail. No respectable Dribbler would be willing to go so far low as to fly a prop. After spending mom's money on FMS classes and Flying Jets 101, nothing less than a jet will suffice.

Exactly. Besides, they have to bust their asses for two BOS winters at Cape just to be eligible for a final interview at JBLU? Like you said, they'll just take their 300 hours to ASA and fly that Shiny Jet.

 

[CX880]

JB and ER should put a second option, which would be to buy, they'd probably have more luck with that. I'd be amusing just how low people will go for to fly A320.

 

[aewanabe]

Take a closer look at the program. These are not going to be 400 hour wonder kids moving straight to JetBlue... Cape air already requires 1500 hours and an ATP to fly the 402 as PIC. So the graduates first have to instruct for a respectable time and THEN fly the 402 for 2 years before being considered. Not such an easy path. In fact it is probably faster to just go to Mesa or Colgan with your 250 hours and then apply to JetBlue after 2 years. I guess that's "slogging it out" but instructing and flying a 402 is the path of the lazy...

I plead guilty to not scruitinizing the program requirements closely enough. I also have massive respect for the Cape Air guys and gals, and agree that flying a 402 through the crappy NE weather is great experience. I still believe that the end product of such a program is a pilot with no turbine experience who is competitive for JB and nowhere else; that guy/gal will not likely be competitive for NW/DL, UA, CO, Netjets, etc.. and therefore is much less likely to bitch about our compensation structure. This is even more true since coming from Cape Air's 402 left seat to JB's 190 right seat is still a pay raise, whereas RJ captains and military bubbas are taking a significant initial cut to come here- with the full expectation of seeing gains in the future. YMMV, but bottom line most of us see this program as management getting younger, more compliant guys in the new-hire seats.

 

[PCL_128]

Disclaimer: I did not go to either of these schools.


Without pointing fingers, I would rather have a pilot with 2000K hrs flying 402s than pilots with other backgrounds. The days of "paying dues" has come and gone. Slogging it out on the east coast for a while in a prop is about the most "dues paying" you will see now-a-days.

I agree that flying 402s in the Northeast is great experience, but do you really want someone in the right seat of your 175,000 lb jet that has never flown anything bigger than a light twin Cessna?

 

[Tomct]

If they're having trouble getting experienced pilots to apply, then they need to raise EMB pay, get a real B-fund retirement plan, and get rid of those insulting five year employment contracts. Creating some program with Humpty-Diddle while there are still thousands of qualified RJ Captains out there is ridiculous.

Emb pay will come up, but get a B plan...yeah, those have worked out so well for everyone else. According to my friends over there the 5 yr. contract is actually a good thing, especially when it comes to possible mergers. (Mohawk Merger Protection) It seems to me that if the contract is up and they see that some idiot got through their process, then they could get rid of them and move on. Unlike airlines that some of the JackAsses slip through the process and are now stuck to the bottom of the carrier's shoe like a Bad piece of gum. If the "experienced" rj guy wants a job...THEN APPLY! Not Jetblue's problem if they don't because they are waiting around to get hired by a legacy that will then fulough them a short time later. There are some ugly things on the horizon for everyone...and it ain't goin to be pretty. Heaven Help US!:erm: