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McCain Hates Pilots
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GogglesPisano
Pawn, in game of life
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2003
- Posts
- 3,939
jke406
Weed is all you need
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
- Posts
- 819
Possibly a Democrat would have been better strictly from a labor perspective.
But how many 9/11-type attacks would we have suffered in the meantime due to Gore's or Kerry's appeasement policies--events that would have crushed our industry far worse than any perceived "anit-labor Republican" being in office?
Ditto on the "head checked" advice...
Last edited:
GogglesPisano
Pawn, in game of life
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2003
- Posts
- 3,939
Oh, those Republicans are such economic populists. Protecting the common man against the greed of airline pilots.
Tuesday, February 27, 2001
Pilots pay smeared in U.S. air woes outcry
By Simon Hirschfeld
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Are pilots highly trained professionals with immense
responsibility, or overpaid aerial cabbies with the airlines in their
unionized grip?
As labor battles further complicate the delay-plagued U.S. air traffic
system, some politicians have pointed to the high pay levels pilots earn as
they scrutinize the use of tactics such as refusing overtime to pressure
management.
Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott this month urged the Department of
Transportation to examine pilot wages and worker-related delays. "What do
they make? Look at those salaries," Lott told the DOT Inspector General.
Airline pilots take home pay is comparable to doctors, lawyers or corporate
executives -- most earn more than $100,000 -- with very senior pilots making
a quarter million or so. They require specialized training, and a pilot one
day may make a life-saving -- or fatal -- decision.
"One of the reasons why they are rather highly paid is that the flying
public and the airlines don't want a pretty good pilot flying a commercial
airliner -- they want a great pilot," said human resources specialist Carl
Weinberg, a principal at the Unifi Network division of
PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP.
Another prominent Republican senator, John McCain, blasted pilots at United
Airlines for engaging in a no-overtime campaign to "satisfy their personal
greed" that was blamed for increased delays and cancellations during
contract talks last summer.
Pilots are the most costly of airline workers, and labor is the biggest cost
for airlines. Contract negotiations between their unions and management are
often bitter.
"The fact that they've bargained for these pay levels suggests that they're
getting paid what they ought to be paid based on supply and demand,"
Weinberg said.
Last year, the contract between UAL Corp.'s United, the world's largest
airline, and its pilots ignited a new round of cost increases throughout the
industry. Several major airlines are now in negotiations with various labor
groups.
Delta Air Lines Inc., the world's No. 3 carrier, is in talks with its
pilots, some of whom have, like United pilots last summer, refused overtime
as a pressure tactic.
How much the delays and cancellations resulted from the job actions is
difficult to sort out, because of a myriad of problems ranging from limits
on airport capacity to outdated air-traffic control technology to weather.
SENIORITY LADDER
In September, McCain compared the 1998 per capital U.S. income of $20,120
with the $342,000 a year that the most senior United pilots will make by
2004. But pilots must climb a fairly rigid ladder of seniority and training
to reach those levels. Once they do so, they cannot switch over to another
airline without losing that seniority.
Pilot pay is based on the years at the airline and the type of aircraft
flown. Starting out, pilots can make less than $20,000. But by the time they
reach captain at a major airline, usually in their mid-30s, they make well
over $100,000.
A pilot usually starts at a major carrier with eight to 12 years of prior
experience, said Kit Darby, president of Air Inc., an Atlanta-based career
resource firm for pilots and other airline workers.
They typically work only 15 days a month, amounting to about 80 flight
hours, the only hours pilots are paid for. They usually spend another 80
unpaid hours on duty at airports. Add time in hotels at destination cities,
and you get 240 to 320 hours pilots spend away from home a month, Darby
said.
Pilots have always been well paid, Darby said. Pay is usually a measure of
productivity and responsibility. An airliner captain is paid based on the
size of the aircraft, an indirect reflection of the number of passengers and
cargo tonnage and the distance they are moved.
"He's got a lot going in one direction and he's responsible for that. It's a
measure of his productivity, like a ship's captain," Darby said.
A co-pilot flying a Boeing 757 or 767 aircraft with five years of experience
at the airline makes $115,392 a year at Delta now, while at United, the same
worker makes $128,712.
A 10-year captain of Boeing 737-200s makes $157,152 at Delta, and $178,152
at United. The most senior captain, with 30 years of experience, flying a
Boeing 777 wide-body, makes $248,040 at Delta, and $254,748 at United.
Delta pilots are expected to top United pilots, who now stand with the
highest pay among passenger carriers.
Delta's recent wage offer included pay increases from 7 to 17.5 percent on
May 1, depending in aircraft type, with average raises for mainline pilots
rising to 30 percent by the end of the proposed four-year contract.
Tuesday, February 27, 2001
Pilots pay smeared in U.S. air woes outcry
By Simon Hirschfeld
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Are pilots highly trained professionals with immense
responsibility, or overpaid aerial cabbies with the airlines in their
unionized grip?
As labor battles further complicate the delay-plagued U.S. air traffic
system, some politicians have pointed to the high pay levels pilots earn as
they scrutinize the use of tactics such as refusing overtime to pressure
management.
Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott this month urged the Department of
Transportation to examine pilot wages and worker-related delays. "What do
they make? Look at those salaries," Lott told the DOT Inspector General.
Airline pilots take home pay is comparable to doctors, lawyers or corporate
executives -- most earn more than $100,000 -- with very senior pilots making
a quarter million or so. They require specialized training, and a pilot one
day may make a life-saving -- or fatal -- decision.
"One of the reasons why they are rather highly paid is that the flying
public and the airlines don't want a pretty good pilot flying a commercial
airliner -- they want a great pilot," said human resources specialist Carl
Weinberg, a principal at the Unifi Network division of
PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP.
Another prominent Republican senator, John McCain, blasted pilots at United
Airlines for engaging in a no-overtime campaign to "satisfy their personal
greed" that was blamed for increased delays and cancellations during
contract talks last summer.
Pilots are the most costly of airline workers, and labor is the biggest cost
for airlines. Contract negotiations between their unions and management are
often bitter.
"The fact that they've bargained for these pay levels suggests that they're
getting paid what they ought to be paid based on supply and demand,"
Weinberg said.
Last year, the contract between UAL Corp.'s United, the world's largest
airline, and its pilots ignited a new round of cost increases throughout the
industry. Several major airlines are now in negotiations with various labor
groups.
Delta Air Lines Inc., the world's No. 3 carrier, is in talks with its
pilots, some of whom have, like United pilots last summer, refused overtime
as a pressure tactic.
How much the delays and cancellations resulted from the job actions is
difficult to sort out, because of a myriad of problems ranging from limits
on airport capacity to outdated air-traffic control technology to weather.
SENIORITY LADDER
In September, McCain compared the 1998 per capital U.S. income of $20,120
with the $342,000 a year that the most senior United pilots will make by
2004. But pilots must climb a fairly rigid ladder of seniority and training
to reach those levels. Once they do so, they cannot switch over to another
airline without losing that seniority.
Pilot pay is based on the years at the airline and the type of aircraft
flown. Starting out, pilots can make less than $20,000. But by the time they
reach captain at a major airline, usually in their mid-30s, they make well
over $100,000.
A pilot usually starts at a major carrier with eight to 12 years of prior
experience, said Kit Darby, president of Air Inc., an Atlanta-based career
resource firm for pilots and other airline workers.
They typically work only 15 days a month, amounting to about 80 flight
hours, the only hours pilots are paid for. They usually spend another 80
unpaid hours on duty at airports. Add time in hotels at destination cities,
and you get 240 to 320 hours pilots spend away from home a month, Darby
said.
Pilots have always been well paid, Darby said. Pay is usually a measure of
productivity and responsibility. An airliner captain is paid based on the
size of the aircraft, an indirect reflection of the number of passengers and
cargo tonnage and the distance they are moved.
"He's got a lot going in one direction and he's responsible for that. It's a
measure of his productivity, like a ship's captain," Darby said.
A co-pilot flying a Boeing 757 or 767 aircraft with five years of experience
at the airline makes $115,392 a year at Delta now, while at United, the same
worker makes $128,712.
A 10-year captain of Boeing 737-200s makes $157,152 at Delta, and $178,152
at United. The most senior captain, with 30 years of experience, flying a
Boeing 777 wide-body, makes $248,040 at Delta, and $254,748 at United.
Delta pilots are expected to top United pilots, who now stand with the
highest pay among passenger carriers.
Delta's recent wage offer included pay increases from 7 to 17.5 percent on
May 1, depending in aircraft type, with average raises for mainline pilots
rising to 30 percent by the end of the proposed four-year contract.
JJET44
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Posts
- 689
Maybe it's time that we have our Unions do what they were designed to do. REPRESENT US. With as many airlines unions out there, we DO have a voice and WILL be heard. We are votes and we have an interest in who is elected. We need to let McCain know that he will not be getting the votes from the US airline pilot group unless he shows his support to our cause and our Unions need to deliver that message.
John Pennekamp
I'd rather be here...
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2006
- Posts
- 3,895
Look, the man had to go! He shook as many as he could until he couldn't hold it any longer! Give him a break.
John Pennekamp
I'd rather be here...
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2006
- Posts
- 3,895
SDF2BUF2MCO
Bird Nerd
- Joined
- May 13, 2002
- Posts
- 7,673
El Correcto. We're all expendable and/or a commodity. Question is who will do the least damage but there will be damage no matter what.
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2004
- Posts
- 13,422
No Republican thinks they will get the Union vote. ALPA endorsed Kerry last time around. How did that go? Pilots have Bush stickers on their bags. I guess the real problem is no one is listening to their union anymore. When that happens, the union has no power.
A-V-8
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Posts
- 355
ALPA sent a questionnaire out to all of the candidates. Only four found the time to respond. Here they are for your reading pleasure.
http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/...ew.aspx?itemid=11892&ModuleId=12555&Tabid=256
O this legislation that Hillary sponsored? I can’t find it. I looked on her website and the senate website. She has like 200 bills that she sponsored but I couldn’t find the one that she mentions that she sponsored. If anyone knows where it is please post a link to it because I would like to read it for myself.
http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/...ew.aspx?itemid=11892&ModuleId=12555&Tabid=256
O this legislation that Hillary sponsored? I can’t find it. I looked on her website and the senate website. She has like 200 bills that she sponsored but I couldn’t find the one that she mentions that she sponsored. If anyone knows where it is please post a link to it because I would like to read it for myself.
MountainFreak
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2006
- Posts
- 101
I don't know JKE, how many? Would they have killed more than 4,700 people? That, it you don't know, are how allied have been killed in Iraq so far. Many more wounded.
I don't know if invading Iraq was the correct thing to do or not, but I do know that this administration was incompetent and borderline criminal in the execution of the war. Only recently with Petraeus have they started to get things right. And we don't really know if the the invasion has made AQ weaker or stronger.
My point is that things are not so simple the way you believe. The mantra that "Republicans are strong on security, Democrats are weak" is nothing more than a talking point made by Rush. No evidence behind it period. Some R's are good, some D's are good, and most of both parties are just slimy politicians.
embraerjetpilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2003
- Posts
- 301
MountainFreak
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2006
- Posts
- 101
One more thing. I fly another military aircraft now, and have been in-theatre many times. I will probably go again. I volunteer. I strongly believe it is my duty to serve, even if I don't agree with policies.
I'm also a a pretty hard-core liberal. I know many so-called conservatives who won't join the military and put their money where there mouth is. So, don't be so quick to judge the D's.
And yes, if I have to, I'll hold my nose and vote for Hillary
I'm also a a pretty hard-core liberal. I know many so-called conservatives who won't join the military and put their money where there mouth is. So, don't be so quick to judge the D's.
And yes, if I have to, I'll hold my nose and vote for Hillary
FlickerFade
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2005
- Posts
- 239
9/11 was the worst thing to happen to the airline industry. It's not a dem/rep thing. Point fingers all you want but no CEO or congress could do the damage that attack did.
"9/11 Never Forget"
No war could sustain the level of hindsight analysis that occurs these days. You can't find a US conflict that couldn't be claimed to be mismanaged at an absurd level (ever heard of WWII?).
It's rhetoric like yours that will never have us vote for the same candidate despite the ALPA connection.
My thought exactly.you give corporate america the key of the white house and all of sudden Mc Cain will look pilots friendly.
MountainFreak
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2006
- Posts
- 101
Not rhetoric. And yes, there is massive mismanagement in all wars. Thousands dead just practicing for D-Day, mostly due to dumb decisions. Just the way war is. There is a huge difference though; this war was known to be mis-managed IN ADVANCE. All the (many) competent military leaders who spoke up were fired or ignored.
Anyway, I'm not the closed minded one. I have and will vote for Republicans if they are the better candidate with the better ideas. Can you say the same?
Enough of this, back to work.
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