CAL scope

[Deerkiller]

My thought is that we probably already have an agreement with Continental for this exact scenario. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a CAL 170 already painted in hiding somewhere right now. It (the agreement) was probably in place a long time ago (why would we take a short lease on CRJ's?).

So who's paying for this mysterious E170?

Give me a break.

 

[Superpilot92]

Bumping this thread with a recent post from the RAH pilot board...



DON'T SELL YOUR SCOPE!

HOLY CRAPP! You CAL guys need to stand firm on this and not allow this short sited pilots get what the want. IF CHQ gets 170s for CAL it will come at the expense of the QOL for CAL pilots and reduce the chance of career progression at the major level for everyone. But the CHQ "mainline" guys can upgrade quicker for regional wages. WTF uke:

You give up on scope and expect LOTS of these running around replacing the 737-300/500's

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Shuttle_America/Embraer_ERJ-170-100SE_170SE/1165382/large/

look the above picture is even flying into Houston already. Dont let it happen!!

 

[Dr.Hwang]

Never relax scope, ever. period. Why choose to give away your jobs. Risk everything to maintain scope. It is THE most important part of any contract. Don't give your job away.

 

[pkober]

Never relax scope, ever. period. Why choose to give away your jobs. Risk everything to maintain scope. It is THE most important part of any contract. Don't give your job away.

Bingo !!!

Thank God we now out number the scabs!

 

[BigMeat]

You give up on scope and expect LOTS of these running around replacing the 737-300/500's

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Shuttle_America/Embraer_ERJ-170-100SE_170SE/1165382/large/

look the above picture is even flying into Houston already. Dont let it happen!!

You hit the nail right on the head. Why would CAL buy newer 100 seat aircraft if they could have someone else take the risk of operation. I will be willing to strike my job out existance if needs be to keep scope. That is protection for us at CAL and the future of you regional guys that one day want to move up to a 100 seater at mainline not a regional.

 

[catIIIc]

In our latest Crew News from the negotiating committee a stronger Scope Clause was mentioned as one of the negotiating goals of Contract 08. I think this pilot group has spoken and has been heard on the Scope issue.

 

[BigMeat]

I will accept lower pay before I accept the relief of scope. Better yet I wont accept either.

 

[flygirlqt]

Bingo !!!

Thank God we now out number the scabs!

We did before pos02. What is your reason for that sorry excuse for a contract?

Attitudes like your only divide the pilot group. Maybe you ought to go back to AA where they showed their true colors for their union counterparts.

With everything that has occurred within ALPA, I see now why the scabs feel about ALPA the way they do. Not that I would cross any picket line but their perception of ALPA is fairly accurate.

 

[ACWild]

We did before pos02. What is your reason for that sorry excuse for a contract?

Attitudes like your only divide the pilot group. Maybe you ought to go back to AA where they showed their true colors for their union counterparts.

With everything that has occurred within ALPA, I see now why the scabs feel about ALPA the way they do. Not that I would cross any picket line but their perception of ALPA is fairly accurate.

I agree that we shouldn't divide the pilot group, but not all of the scabs crossed because of their views of ALPA. Also, their actions didn't hurt ALPA, it hurt their coworkers. Jmho.

 

[flygirlqt]

I agree that we shouldn't divide the pilot group, but not all of the scabs crossed because of their views of ALPA. Also, their actions didn't hurt ALPA, it hurt their coworkers. Jmho.

I agree with you.

 

[Axel]

Two words:

Guppy Killer

 

[pkober]

We did before pos02. What is your reason for that sorry excuse for a contract?

Attitudes like your only divide the pilot group. Maybe you ought to go back to AA where they showed their true colors for their union counterparts.

With everything that has occurred within ALPA, I see now why the scabs feel about ALPA the way they do. Not that I would cross any picket line but their perception of ALPA is fairly accurate.

Do you fly with these POS's?

POS 02 was voted in becuase the pilot group let themselves be scared. I wasn't here in 02 but that's what all the pilots who voted for it tell me.

The scabs have influenced this pilot group long enough. The junior pilots, like myself, who have seen good contracts will not be influenced by these idiots.

I'm not dividing the pilot group. I am only telling you how I feel about these guys. They have hurt this pilot group in so many ways. They will cross a picket line if they need to. I bet even you know that. I write these guys off. They won't help us, only hurt us.

So let me get this straight. Follow the party line and don't slam the scabs, if you do then just go back to your old airline. Classic. If we could act like 10% of APA during our contract talks I would be happy.

Please don't side with people who crossed ALPA, or any, picket lines. We can succeed and we don't need these idiots.

Frats.

 

[Superpilot92]

Two words:

Guppy Killer

YUP!!uke:

 

[flygirlqt]

Do you fly with these POS's?

Yes, do you? Did you not realize that issue when you were looking for work at Continental? Frankly, not all of them are pos's either. I have flown with others that were not from that era that concern me far greater than scabs.

POS 02 was voted in becuase the pilot group let themselves be scared. I wasn't here in 02 but that's what all the pilots who voted for it tell me.

You were not here. Enough said.

ALPA, put on a scare campaign for pos02 and it was pathetic. Talking with the scabs I have flown with and what many say about ALPA has a ring of truth to it. The more exposure I see about ALPA the sicker I get thinking that some of them have some good points that can not be dismissed.

If you'd have a nice cup of stfu you might learn that all is not well within the ALPA organization.

The scabs have influenced this pilot group long enough. The junior pilots, like myself, who have seen good contracts will not be influenced by these idiots.

Again your tone is divisive. It does none of us any good. This was also the same bullcrap excuse we listened to before "that the junior pilots would not be influenced". They were, and most put their tails between their legs by our ALPA leaders.

You are a fool if you think that 10% is influencing the pilot group. That is called rationalizing.

I'm not dividing the pilot group.

As a matter of fact yes you are. Idiots, POS's, write these guys off etc. etc. I look at pilots like you as the problem far more than the scabs.

I am only telling you how I feel about these guys.
They have hurt this pilot group in so many ways. They will cross a picket line if they need to. I bet even you know that. I write these guys off. They won't help us, only hurt us.

If you feel so strongly about this subject then you are at the wrong airline to begin with. I can think of quite a few other subgroups within this company that are presently doing far more damage.

No one knows who will cross a picket line.

So let me get this straight. Follow the party line and don't slam the scabs, if you do then just go back to your old airline. Classic. If we could act like 10% of APA during our contract talks I would be happy.

No, I just think it is funny from some newer guy bitching about the make up of the airline and placing blame solely upon one segment of the pilot group.

Did you voice your concerns and beliefs about and to the scabs that hired you and did your training? While you were sucking up to the scabs you were jerking gear for did you voice your opinion to them for your probationary reports? Do you currently voice your opinion while taking your mv/loes?

Or are you just the type to spout off on a internet board? I actually know who you are and frankly all you ever whine about is your background with TWA and the AA furlough.

Speaking of APA, you want that same mentality that put you on the street here? Your loyalties and sense of kinship certainly are bent.

Please don't side with people who crossed ALPA, or any, picket lines. We can succeed and we don't need these idiots.

We need everybody we can get. We do not need people like you fractionalizing the pilot group.

Frats.

No Thanks. I can do without your narrow minded version of unity.

 

[pkober]

Yes, do you? Did you not realize that issue when you were looking for work at Continental? Frankly, not all of them are pos's either. I have flown with others that were not from that era that concern me far greater than scabs.



You were not here. Enough said.

ALPA, put on a scare campaign for pos02 and it was pathetic. Talking with the scabs I have flown with and what many say about ALPA has a ring of truth to it. The more exposure I see about ALPA the sicker I get thinking that some of them have some good points that can not be dismissed.

If you'd have a nice cup of stfu you might learn that all is not well within the ALPA organization.



Again your tone is divisive. It does none of us any good. This was also the same bullcrap excuse we listened to before "that the junior pilots would not be influenced". They were, and most put their tails between their legs by our ALPA leaders.

You are a fool if you think that 10% is influencing the pilot group. That is called rationalizing.



As a matter of fact yes you are. Idiots, POS's, write these guys off etc. etc. I look at pilots like you as the problem far more than the scabs.



If you feel so strongly about this subject then you are at the wrong airline to begin with. I can think of quite a few other subgroups within this company that are presently doing far more damage.

No one knows who will cross a picket line.


No, I just think it is funny from some newer guy bitching about the make up of the airline and placing blame solely upon one segment of the pilot group.

Did you voice your concerns and beliefs about and to the scabs that hired you and did your training? While you were sucking up to the scabs you were jerking gear for did you voice your opinion to them for your probationary reports? Do you currently voice your opinion while taking your mv/loes?

Or are you just the type to spout off on a internet board? I actually know who you are and frankly all you ever whine about is your background with TWA and the AA furlough.

Speaking of APA, you want that same mentality that put you on the street here? Your loyalties and sense of kinship certainly are bent.



We need everybody we can get. We do not need people like you fractionalizing the pilot group.



No Thanks. I can do without your narrow minded version of unity.

Wow !!!

We need everyone we can get, except you. Well said.

Sorry for not drinking the CAL cool aid. Apparently you have a soft spot for the scabs. Good luck with that.

I do believe that the junior pilots won't run away from a fight. We have been around the block and know more than you give use credit for.

I don't know you, but probably would drink a beer with you. I disagree with you, that's it.

So, since I wasn't here in 02 I can't complain. Come on, man! If we don't complain, this contract will never get fixed. We hear it all the time here about things always being this way and that's just the way they should stay. I disagree. I want a better contract not just extra cash, but real work rules.

I disagree with you on the scabs. I'll stop using those meany words if it offends you. They only think about themselves, no one else. They don't care about you, me or the good of the union.

As far as ALPA goes. I am no ALPA cheerleader. On the issue of ALPA you and I can agree. Just the fact that they let these guys back in the union shows you what ALPA is all about. $$$$$$.

I had no idea who was who when I was hired here. So I couldn't tell who was a scab and who wasn't.

Does it bother you what they did? Do you think that they would cross a picket line again? I'll say 5% won't. I'll also say 5% of the non scabs would.

 

[Blue Moon]

More thoughts on CAL ALPA scope from RAH pilots...

Yes, I do hope to work at this regional for the rest of my life. I really enjoy my job, I enjoy my position, and I hope that things continue to grow in the future. I am not willing to give up quality of life to eventually become a CA of a 737 for the last 10 years of my career where I can hold weekends and holidays off to make $40K more than I am making right now. Spending time with my daughter, going to parent/teacher conferences, and waking up with her on Christmas day are worth much more than any pay raise that I may get.

I, for one, personally think that there is a lot of potential here. So do I hope that Continental pilots give up scope? Absolutely.

I used to be in the crowed that though CAL ALPA would never give up scope. But they'd be fools if they didn't.

First of all, look at all of the groups who have given up scope. Has it hurt them in terms of career expectations? Don't think so. US Airways, Delta, Northwest, United: all are hiring and all have busted through the 70-seat barrier. Airways tried 70-seat flying on its own certificate, and that didn't work; it needed the pilots! So it moved the bar up to around 90, and that's been working pretty well for them. What's setting the bar? It wasn't Airways, and it sure the heck ain't us.

So what are CAL pilots supposed to do? They talk a good game of holding firm at 50 seats, and I commend and respect them for that. But I suspect this is nothing more than a bargaining chip. Smart leaders in that group will look at the Mid-Atlantic example and see how it didn't work there and likely wouldn't work here. But they'll keep the drumbeat up at holding the line at 50, and that will raise the price of a TA. They'll get a better deal in terms of pay, benefits, work rules and career progression, with scope moved to 70. You can bet that the same thing will happen at AA.

 

[pkober]

Speaking of APA, you want that same mentality that put you on the street here? Your loyalties and sense of kinship certainly are bent.

9-11 put me on the street, not APA. ALPA was supposed to represent me during the "merger" and didn't. That's were my didtrust of ALPA comes from. I support our local, I just think national is a corporation wanting our money. Some one's gotta pay Prater's salary.

I would like to see some of the ball$ that APA diplays during there contract talks happen here. We can't afford to play nice with management. Simply stating that another union appears to being doing it right doesn't mean I am unloyal.

It's okay for disagreement.

Peace, out

 

[GINCHBLASTER]

Blue Moon, you are posting examples of quotes from a very, very small group of RAH pilots that for one reason or another would like to see the Continental pilots give up on the scope clause. If you looked at any other regional airline I'm sure there will always be guys like that. The vast majority of RAH pilots are younger guys that have aspirations of flying at a major/legacy, and DO understand that as the RJ's get larger, their chance at that major/legacy gets smaller.

 

[Axel]

Bad form, blue moon. Bad form.

 

[pkober]

Flygirlqt,

I think you might be taking these message boards, here and calforums, way to serious.

There are three types on these boards.

1.) The "in the know" types. They start there threads with "I had Larry on my jumpseat and he said this", "I was over the North Atlantic and a UAL crew said", or any other BS rumor. Gossip.

2.) Lerkers. (sp)

3.) Pot stirrers, like me. Chum the water. We drive the 1st types nuts. We lace our threads with sarcasm and throw grenades over the fence.

We really are on the same page with what we want at CAL. Different styles, but the same goal.

Good luck to you.