Frontier is selling four aircraft after record lose

[luckytohaveajob]

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUKWEN356420080125?rpc=44

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Frontier President and Chief Executive Sean Menke said the results were "clearly unacceptable."

 

[johnsonrod]

Selling Airbuses while adding E170s and Q400s to the mix... YIKES!!!!

 

[boomlrd]

Well, I guess Spirit has some airplanes to buy now.

 

[USMC319]

Well, I guess Spirit has some airplanes to buy now.

I doubt it. Frontier operates the CFM-56 powered aircraft and Spirit operates the IAE2500s.

I think they (F9) would like to phase out of the A-318 fleet if possible, but in any case the best resale market is international not domestic.

BTW, the growth will still be 5 or 6% going forward using the larger A-320s which will be delivered in the first calendar quarter and the addition of the Q-400s to the system. Not sure about EMB-170 growth??

New CEO is on a mission. We'll see how good he is.

 

[Beetle007]

Selling Airbuses while adding E170s and Q400s to the mix... YIKES!!!!

Why did Frontier pilots vote to outsource their flying to Linx? And, even worst case, why didn't they require that Lynx be part of their union with flow up and down provisions. Even NWA learned from their mistakes and required that Compass be ALPA from day one with flow up and down.

 

[USMC319]

Why did Frontier pilots vote to outsource their flying to Linx? And, even worst case, why didn't they require that Linx be part of their union with flow up and down provisions. Even NWA learned from their mistakes and required that Compass be ALPA from day one with flow up and down.

Not so simple. And a long story, but if you are interested I'm sure someone will indulge you. In a nutshell Frontier formed a Holding Company, then started a new company called Lynx. Frontier Airlines Inc had nothing to do with it. The only way we could have voted to take Q-400s into the mainline fleet (Frontier Inc.) and have a single seniority list would have been to invent a time machine and go back in time...Unfortunately

 

[Beetle007]

So Frontier didn't have any scope protection in their previous contract to prevent Frontier from starting up a seperate regional airline?

I didn't think Lynx got their aircraft until after Frontier Pilots signed the new contract?

 

[maxblast72]

Not that big of a deal guys. Jetblue has been selling airplanes for a couple of years now to slow down the growth rate. Even Southwest announced selling/lease returns of 22 aircraft in 2008 so their fleet will only increase a net of 7 aircraft in 2008.

Reducing the growth rate should allow Frontier some time to adapt to the new realities of the marketplace. They mentioned in their press release that the core of the airline (Denver market) seemed to be performing well.

 

[Propsync]

I still give credit to Frontier to make the Dash flying 'in house'. It will give flexability to explore codeshares with the Q down the line, as the turboprop market for flights under 300 miles will likely increase. Some will say the timimg was a bit poor, but the idea seems to be worthwhile. As many places are choking themselves on 50 seat RJ's, Frontier has, at least, put themselves in a decent position. It's up to management to make good use of it.

 

[Larcifer]

Why did Frontier pilots vote to outsource their flying to Linx? And, even worst case, why didn't they require that Lynx be part of their union with flow up and down provisions. Even NWA learned from their mistakes and required that Compass be ALPA from day one with flow up and down.

Because we were stupid! No balls to hold the company to the fire and try and maintain our previous scope. Majority of the group actually believed that Q400s and RJs would lead to mainline growth. Hard to feed a 114 seat airbus with a 76 seat RJ with similar range. Yes we are getting 2 320s and parking 4 319s this doesn't lead to an upside for the F9 pilot group. Nobody wants to learn from history, they need to take it up there own ass to before they believe it!

Just my previous ass screwing 2 cents.

 

[MINIME]

Not so simple. And a long story, but if you are interested I'm sure someone will indulge you. In a nutshell Frontier formed a Holding Company, then started a new company called Lynx. Frontier Airlines Inc had nothing to do with it. The only way we could have voted to take Q-400s into the mainline fleet (Frontier Inc.) and have a single seniority list would have been to invent a time machine and go back in time...Unfortunately

Hmm... They stole a play right out of JO (Mesa vs Freedom) and Hulas Kanodia (Trans States vs Gojets) playbook. Hiring on one side of the fence and screwing the other.

No way to really fight it if scope is not tied to the Holding company. Not in today's political climate. Ask any TSA pilot who tried and got nailed by the politically appointed Mediator. Didn't know about this, sorry to hear it guys.

 

[Shrek]

Former TSAer here and it seems like the same Circus - Different Clowns

I am saddened to hear of this news..........

 

[F/O]

Did anybody start getting suspicious when Potter left? It just seems strange he would leave to run a time share operation if things were still peachy.

 

[StaySeated]

Probably the smartest thing Potter has done in the last 2 decades was leave. Stay at a bleeding airline or jump to a successful company while tripling your salary. Not a tough decision.

 

[starchkr]

You know, these are all great points and all guys, but i am still trying to figure out what the heck a "lose" is...

 

[F/O]

Any thoughts on why a Jetblue/Frontier merger hasn't already happened? Other than different engines?

The thing with Potter should have definitely clued some people in. Not a slam, but it seems there are maybe more kool aid drinkers at Frontier than some other places.

 

[CitationUltra]

Any thoughts on why a Jetblue/Frontier merger hasn't already happened? Other than different engines?

The thing with Potter should have definitely clued some people in. Not a slam, but it seems there are maybe more kool aid drinkers at Frontier than some other places.

There doesn't seem to be any impetus for such a merger. Both companies have the conceit of thinking that they have it all figured out (e.g., that they know something about economics that no one else knows) and so do not want and do not see any benefit to be gained from a merger. Koolaid, indeed.

 

[jetalc]

There doesn't seem to be any impetus for such a merger. Both companies have the conceit of thinking that they have it all figured out (e.g., that they know something about economics that no one else knows) and so do not want and do not see any benefit to be gained from a merger. Koolaid, indeed.

Wow - were you in the BOD meeting? It sounds like you've got it all figured out!

 

[FBN0223]

How about DL/NW and Frontier?