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ASA, DAL almost collide in ATL

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captainv

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Posts
572
Let's be careful out there...

Passenger jets within seconds of collision at Hartsfield

By JIM THARPE
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 01/11/08

A Mexico-bound Delta Air Lines Boeing 757 came within a few seconds of colliding with a smaller commuter jet Friday in Atlanta as the smaller jet crossed a runway in front of the larger craft, which was going more than 100 mph on a takeoff roll.
The incident, which occurred about 10:30 a.m. at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport, has sparked a formal investigation by the Federal Aviation Administration, said FAA regional spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen.


Bergen said initial indications suggest the pilots of Atlantic Southeast Airlines Flight 876 to Greensboro, N.C., improperly taxied across the runway after controllers in the Hartsfield-Jackson tower ordered the plane to stop short. The pilot, Bergen said, apparently acknowledged those instructions and repeated them back to the tower, but the jet continued across the active runway.
"At this point we consider this a pilot deviation for the pilot in ASA plane," Bergen said.


There were 130 passengers aboard the Delta flight and 44 aboard the ASA jet.


ASA officials said they also are investigating.
"The safety of our passenger and our people remains out No. 1 priority," said ASA spokeswoman Kate Modolo. "We currently are conducting an internal investigation, and we are working in cooperation with the FAA regarding this occurrence."


No one was injured, and both airplanes continued on their way. At the closest point, the two planes came within about 1,250 feet — or about 2 to 3 seconds of colliding, according to air traffic controllers.


"It's fortunate the (ASA) plane continued through the intersection because the Delta flight could not have stopped," said Doug Church, a spokesman for the National Air Traffic Controllers Association. "If that (ASA) plane had stopped, there would have been a collision."


The Delta plane, Flight 261, took off and continued with out incident, landing in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico at 12:49 p.m., said Delta spokesman Kent Landers. The ASA flight later took off without further incident and landed in Greensboro at 11:23 a.m.
"As always, safety is our No. 1 priority at Delta, and we will work closely with the FAA to provide information as needed," Landers said.
 
Not that it really matters, but for informations sake it was a very senior cp and very senior fo on the acey flight.
What's very senior???? He's barely in the top third on the 50. Capt is a little over 8 yrs, FO is a year and 9 months. Very senior? Not really...
 
What's very senior???? He's barely in the top third on the 50. Capt is a little over 8 yrs, FO is a year and 9 months. Very senior? Not really...

You're not looking at the right flight. It's the second flight to GSO this morning.
 
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Flight from ATL crossing an active runway? Maybe crossing 9L/27R heading down to 10/28 for departure?

If so, that can be such a cluster when that operation is in effect.
 
Flight from ATL crossing an active runway? Maybe crossing 9L/27R heading down to 10/28 for departure?

If so, that can be such a cluster when that operation is in effect.
I was trying to figure the same thing out. GSO is a north or east departure? 10/28 departure is the only thing I can figure if the AJC got the flt number right.
 
Well my posts were removed because too many people complained that my info gave away who it was....

....my poinit was that it wasn't a senior FO..... it was a junior FO.....contrary to what was posted earlier....

....the main point that should be discussed is whether or not all the "briefing" BS contributed to this event.... Maybe less "briefing" and more heads up and ears to the radio is in order....

......it will be interesting to hear the training dept./FAA spin on this..... probably yet another procedure that will simply compound the problem......
 
Last week we were told to cancel take off clearance on 27R as a Delta 737 rolled across the hold short. We were doing about 50-60 knots. Tower was none too happy and they got a phone number. It goes around...
 
MODERATOR NOTE:

DO NOT POST ANY INFORMATION ABOUT WHO THE PILOTS WERE. THIS INCLUDES, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO...

SONORITY NUMBERS
DATE OF HIRE
ETC.

You get the idea. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
 
MODERATOR NOTE:

DO NOT POST ANY INFORMATION ABOUT WHO THE PILOTS WERE. THIS INCLUDES, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO...

SONORITY NUMBERS
DATE OF HIRE
ETC.

You get the idea. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

I didn't post "sonority" number, DOH, etc..... I just posted that this wasn't a real senior crew as was posted earlier.... if you want accuracy, you would remove the post that said this was "a senior crew".......

I understand the issue of protecting the crew, but it isn't fair to portray this as a "senior crew"....... Fair and Balanced.....
 
Checking the etrip info again, the first flight to GSO was a junior crew. The second flight to GSO (the one in question) was a senior crew.

Again, not that junior vs senior matters. I primarily pointed it out considering there are other threads on the forum discussing the cost of having more junior flight crews.

Not that it is an excuse, but it will be very interesting if a contributing factor was the FO doing a taxi engine start, and the other stuff merchant mentioned.
 
Flight from ATL crossing an active runway? Maybe crossing 9L/27R heading down to 10/28 for departure?

If so, that can be such a cluster when that operation is in effect.


I believe GSO is a DAWGS departure which is normally 9L/27R, but can be switched to a 10/28 sometimes.
 
....the main point that should be discussed is whether or not all the "briefing" BS contributed to this event.... Maybe less "briefing" and more heads up and ears to the radio is in order....

......it will be interesting to hear the training dept./FAA spin on this..... probably yet another procedure that will simply compound the problem......

I agree Joe, there is a time and place to run checklists. So many people get so worried about getting the brief and checklist completed.

Theres a time and place to run checklists. And at busy airports you will eventually be stopped behind someone for a long time to complete the required checks.

I am not trying to be monday morning quarterback, and I don't know what happened there in ATL. But I don't know how many times I have told new FO's that I am not ready for that checklist. And try to explain to them that if I am busy in a turn or looking for taxi ways I am not gonna hear one word there saying anyway.

Be safe out there everyone and don't get so rapped up in the damn checklist that you forget whats going on around you.
 
ASA briefs on the taxi roll??

Why wouldn't you? If the work load is low you can do that briefs while moving.

I don't know what ASA's SOP's are, but I have jumpseated on my airlines that do there checks on the taxi roll.

Theres no problem with it when there no workload involved.
 
ASA briefs on the taxi roll??

Most majors not only brief on taxi, but also get all the weight and balance data, performance data, and set speeds. Delta is one of the few that still do that at the gate.
 
With all the emphasis on hold short clearances it does make you wonder what what going on in that flight deck. It also makes you wonder what action the feds will take on the crew. If it is only a license suspension hopefully ASA will allow him to keep his job.
 
He'll most likely keep his job. He is a great person and is the last one to deserve losing his job.

Obviously, he will get something on his record.

Assuming it was the crews fault. That, in itself is an assumption at this point.

There could be much more to the story.

Bottom line, we are all at risk to this senario, and certainly not immune to making mistakes.

Fly safe,

Medeco
 
I am sure they filed their NASA forms. I hope they did.

Be careful out there. I had several occasions in the ATL lately where the controllers were not clear or provided WRONG instructions. Not saying that this happened in Flight 876's case!
When I queried the ground controller in our case, he became obnoxious instead of being professional and clearing up the mistake that HE made.

Point trying to make is:
We are all humans and need to be aware that mistakes are easier to make under certain circumstances. Help each other out if you see or hear something that might lead someone on the wrong path. Oh, And keep your attitude at home!
 
Bottom line....Both pilots are at fault. Regardless of the situation. Before you cross any runway, you clear left, and clear right., drop what your doing and pay attention. They got to lazy in doing so it seems. We all make mistakes, and we all get lazy, but we need to continue to try to stay alert. It is a very repetitive job.
 
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Bottom line....Both pilots are at fault. Regardless of the situation. Before you cross any runway, you clear left, and clear right., drop what your doing and pay attention. They got to lazy in doing so. Be careful out there.

I just can't get over all of the Monday morning quarterbacking on this website every time something bad happens, or someone screws up. Flightinfo is so amazing in that EVERY SINGLE MEMBER is an f'in aviation expert.

The NTSB and FAA should just skip their investigations and read this site. The conclusion would be out in days instead of months!!! :rolleyes:
 
This applies to everybody, not just in this case, so lighten up. I see FO's everyday with their heads down while crossing runways and yet they tell me they are clear. Right. Just watch out is all I'm sayn'
 
Never mind the new controllers in ATL have marbles in their mouths. I have to ask them to repeat what they said because it is practically ghettospeak. Add to that they're new in ATL and don't operate like the old crew (Buzz, et al) did- efficiently, and the same way every time. You have to be very careful here now. No excuse, but things have changed for the worse.
 
Never mind the new controllers in ATL have marbles in their mouths. I have to ask them to repeat what they said because it is practically ghettospeak. Add to that they're new in ATL and don't operate like the old crew (Buzz, et al) did- efficiently, and the same way every time. You have to be very careful here now. No excuse, but things have changed for the worse.

I agree completely, with the amount of new people in every position throughout aviation, it seems like everyone is out to get you violated. It will ultimately always end up the crews fault other then mx, since we are the one at the controls, and they just want to pass the blame onto the crew to make it go away, so just look at it that way, and watch yourself! Don't get lazy.
 
I like the whole, "Watch yourself! Don't get lazy... so you don't kill yourself and others" philosophy.

Or just blame others. That's usually easier.

-Brett
 
Even if it was the crews fault which sucks, bc ATC has screwed up the simpliest airport in the world,that doesn't mean that the ATC union guy has to be on the local news saying it was the pilots fault like he did last night!!! Way to make every person at home make another pilot joke. Very perfessional on his part. Also FYI if the tower gives you a number to call you don't have to call them back.
 

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