The last straw

[SimHo]

This age 65 bill should be the last straw for all regional ALPA pilots. This new bill MOST affects regional airline pilots. It was HURRIED through congress by ALPA, against the wishes of the majority of ALPA pilots and nearly all of the regional pilots.
I challenge all ALPA MEC’s to construct a resolution to succeed from ALPA and either create a new REGIONAL pilot union or join a union more in tuned with the regional airline pilots needs. You owe it to yourself and to your airlines pilot group to give your money to an organization that may actually care about you.

 

[Eric]

Get a life. You've got no pull; never will.

 

[Palerider957]

Hell, I know 55 year old pilots who have no business in the cockpit. Pair a 64 year old cranky SOB, on his fourth FA wife, with a 200 hr wonder.......wow, that will be lots of fun.

 

[SimHo]

Get a life. You've got no pull; never will.

Never said I did!! I am just fed up with ALPA's BS.
It is time to make a change.

And by the way "lighten up Francis"

 

[Flybywire44]

SimHo the fact remains that our MECs like ASAs are subsidized by Legacy ALPA unions. Our companies and our unions ride on the coat tails of mainlines and their ALPAs.

Succeeding will never happen, plus age 65 is done. If you felt so passionately about this you should have been raising hell a long time ago. There are more major airline pilots than regional. Who are you to think you're better than a 60 year old major airline pilot. How old are you? How long have you been flying? They deserve a full career. Yeah regional life sucks, but they've been through hell.

I love how regional pilots age discriminate against the youngest and oldest of professional pilots.

My father, a man who raised four children and contributes to society lost his retirement. He needs the 5 more years to make up a portion of what he lost.

They were here first, they get to be here 5 years longer if they want and so do we. This extension does not quail the demand for pilots as much as you think it will.

You'll still get a job and be successful... Stop being selfish SimHo.

 

[atrdriver]

No, you will not succeed from ALPA, but they will succeed if all the regionals secede. Come on, at least try to use the right words. Sorry, couldn't help it on this one.

 

[atrdriver]

How old are you? How long have you been flying? They deserve a full career. Yeah regional life sucks, but they've been through hell.

How old he is is not relevant at all. And they HAD a full career. They knew the rules when they got into this business. They moved up the seniority ladder when those above them left at 60. Now they got there and decided that they didn't like the rules anymore, and they whined enough to get someone to change them. I'm no longer at a regional, and I didn't support changing the rules either. And a lot of people go through hell without whining to the government that their life just isn't fair.

 

[SimHo]

No, you will not succeed from ALPA, but they will succeed if all the regionals secede. Come on, at least try to use the right words. Sorry, couldn't help it on this one.

You are 100% correct. My apologies. Microsoft Word does not always correct errors.

 

[Flybywire44]

How old he is is not relevant at all. And they HAD a full career. They knew the rules when they got into this business. They moved up the seniority ladder when those above them left at 60. Now they got there and decided that they didn't like the rules anymore, and they whined enough to get someone to change them. I'm no longer at a regional, and I didn't support changing the rules either. And a lot of people go through hell without whining to the government that their life just isn't fair.

You speak of rules in this industry? What rules? The first rule in the Airline industry is that nothing is certain. Including the age of retirement. They are the senior pilots in this industry, they should be respected for their accomplishments and experience as Bush obviously recognized.

As I said before, there will be plenty of demand for regional pilots at Legacy carriers. Many pilots will not work past the age of 60 anyway.

 

[bailout]

This new bill MOST affects regional airline pilots.

Yes it sure does. It gives you 5 more years of employment.

 

[COOPERVANE]

lots of 60 year olds will still want to retire. Many that want to stay will not pass the physical. It's a joke to pass when you're 25, not so much when you are 62.

Does anyone know which European carriers allow past 60 and what percentace they make up of the pilot group?

 

[Eric]

Sorry SimHo. I was all fired up after a couple beers and was WAY too excited to have the first crack at your post.

I guess I don't care either way. 5 years more if I want it. 5 years longer to get there. What can you do.

 

[Flybywire44]

I dunno Eric... I thought your reply was appropriate.

Someone get this guy some more beer!

 

[OCP]

For those who say this is an ALPA failing, or that the "majority" of ALPA members were against this, fail to remember ALPA doing polling for months and a vote taken to decide where ALPA stood on this issue. The members voted in favor of the change to age 65. So ALPA changed it's stance and helped move the bill through. Until that vote they fought against it.

 

[SimHo]

For those who say this is an ALPA failing, or that the "majority" of ALPA members were against this, fail to remember ALPA doing polling for months and a vote taken to decide where ALPA stood on this issue. The members voted in favor of the change to age 65. So ALPA changed it's stance and helped move the bill through. Until that vote they fought against it.

WRONG!!!!
The APLA members that did vote, voted to keep the law as is. Look up the facts, they are in a previous thread.

 

[OCP]

WRONG!!!!
The APLA members that did vote, voted to keep the law as is. Look up the facts, they are in a previous thread.

You are right. I stand corrected. I didn't have #s in front of me and only remembered reading something that said that members said yes. For anyone who wants to read the results go here.
https://crewroom.alpa.org/nwamec/Des...44& Tabid=760

But... if you read the 2nd question it basicly says if the change is going to happen no matter what, what should ALPA do? A large % said that ALPA should drop it's opposition and modify the rule change.

 

[Flybywire44]

Social Security Retirement Age is 65
EU Pilot Retirement Age is 65
Pilot Retirement Age was originally not 60

 

[JoeMerchant]

1. Most ALPA members didn't voice an opinion on this issue one way or the other...... as with most issues in ALPA, the majority of ALPA members are simply apathetic.........

2. ALPA has flip-flopped on this issue over the years based solely on mainline pilots pension plans...... Before they had these great Afund pension plans, ALPA opposed age 60. When the mainline pilots got these great A fund pension plans, they decided that age 60 retirement was great. Then the pension plans disappeared..... guess what also disappeared.... the support for age 60.....

3. See a trend here folks? ALPA members and airline pilots look out for their own best interests..... they don't look out for other pilot's best interests...... Sorry to burst your bubble..... but we aren't this great "brotherhood".....

4. I think age 60 should have changed..... I now have the choice to decide..... as do all of you.....

 

[thor2j]

For those who say this is an ALPA failing, or that the "majority" of ALPA members were against this, fail to remember ALPA doing polling for months and a vote taken to decide where ALPA stood on this issue. The members voted in favor of the change to age 65. So ALPA changed it's stance and helped move the bill through. Until that vote they fought against it.

Your facts are ALL wrong. 58% voted not to change. Our worthless MECs(except XJT and NWA) sold us out based on their own best interest, then Prater looked after his own.

 

[thor2j]

Social Security Retirement Age is 65
EU Pilot Retirement Age is 65
Pilot Retirement Age was originally not 60

KLM/AIR France (largest airline in the world) 55/58
Many Asian carriers 55

Only a few really let you fly beyond 60. I believe Air Canada and BA are the only ones flying into US.

 

[ToiletDuck]

Who cares nothing you can do about it now. Personally I don't want to be forced to retire. I hope I'm living the good life before it comes to that but for me it's the morals of it.

 

[OCP]

Your facts are ALL wrong. 58% voted not to change. Our worthless MECs(except XJT and NWA) sold us out based on their own best interest, then Prater looked after his own.

Look a few posts up, I recanted my statement and included a link to the poll.

 

[ex j-41]

SimHo the fact remains that our MECs like ASAs are subsidized by Legacy ALPA unions. Our companies and our unions ride on the coat tails of mainlines and their ALPAs.

Succeeding will never happen, plus age 65 is done. If you felt so passionately about this you should have been raising hell a long time ago. There are more major airline pilots than regional. Who are you to think you're better than a 60 year old major airline pilot. How old are you? How long have you been flying? They deserve a full career. Yeah regional life sucks, but they've been through hell.

I love how regional pilots age discriminate against the youngest and oldest of professional pilots.

My father, a man who raised four children and contributes to society lost his retirement. He needs the 5 more years to make up a portion of what he lost.

They were here first, they get to be here 5 years longer if they want and so do we. This extension does not quail the demand for pilots as much as you think it will.

You'll still get a job and be successful... Stop being selfish SimHo.

Selfish?
Your dad gets 5 more years at 160k and we get 5 more years at 30!

Age sixty-five helps only those who are captains today, and hurts those that are already living in poverty.

 

[XPOO]

So you mean to tell us that ALPA is running their own agenda without the input of their dues-payers? And we all wonder why SkyWest and Colgan voted down ALPA.

 

[Mookie]

Selfish?
Your dad gets 5 more years at 160k and we get 5 more years at 30!

Age sixty-five helps only those who are captains today, and hurts those that are already living in poverty.

If you hadn't whored yourself out for $30k to fly RJ's, then his dad would have been making $250K and retired two years ago and been playing in Cancun. What goes around comes around. I spent time at a regional, and am not so arrogant to know that these guys got fooked in Bankruptcy and if it takes 5 more years for me to get off reserve/upgrade, then I should have seen it coming.

don't blame the retiring captains, blame yourselves for being so goddamn shortsighted to not see this coming. if you wanted to make more than $30k, then you should have gone somewhere that pays a hell of alot more.

we're all whores. it's just that some think they aren't.

Mookie

 

[ex j-41]

If you hadn't whored yourself out for $30k to fly RJ's, then his dad would have been making $250K and retired two years ago and been playing in Cancun. What goes around comes around. I spent time at a regional, and am not so arrogant to know that these guys got fooked in Bankruptcy and if it takes 5 more years for me to get off reserve/upgrade, then I should have seen it coming.

don't blame the retiring captains, blame yourselves for being so goddamn shortsighted to not see this coming. if you wanted to make more than $30k, then you should have gone somewhere that pays a hell of alot more.

we're all whores. it's just that some think they aren't.

Mookie

If i can say go #*#$# YOURSELF.
I didn't make the pay rates. I just have to live with the wrongfull doings of previous MEC's and selfish &^*&& like yourself.
It wasn't like when i interviewed i was asked what i expect for a pay check. I get what i am given. You know that and it irritates me to death that idiots like you use your republican attitude to point the blame on the people that had nothing to do with it. Expecially when you know damm well that you start at the bottom or you don't start at all. But now we all have anouther 5 years longer at a crappy pay rate. And that my friend is just another way the senior pilots in this country screwed the young. Should have seen it coming? Sorry my crystal ball was in maint. Dork!

 

[kmox29]

It gives you 5 more years of employment.

...at a lower pay rate. But don't worry, you "get" another 5 years to make that up. Just think, you can work until you're s-i-x-t-y f-i-v-e uke:

 

[Mookie]

If i can say go #*#$# YOURSELF.
I didn't make the pay rates. I just have to live with the wrongfull doings of previous MEC's and selfish &^*&& like yourself.
It wasn't like when i interviewed i was asked what i expect for a pay check. I get what i am given. You know that and it irritates me to death that idiots like you use your republican attitude to point the blame on the people that had nothing to do with it. Expecially when you know damm well that you start at the bottom or you don't start at all. But now we all have anouther 5 years longer at a crappy pay rate. And that my friend is just another way the senior pilots in this country screwed the young. Should have seen it coming? Sorry my crystal ball was in maint. Dork!

If not bitching about others screwing me, and then expecting a handout makes me a republican...then so be it. no one is entitled to anything, and if you are so freakin' smart, then you would realize that any group is going to take care of the top end earners, who pay more dues, than those earning less with the potential to earn more. Those captains at majors who have been there for 25 years have EARNED the right to have their cake and eat it too. sorry, i didn't get into this business with blinders on, and don't blame me if you did.

go out there and earn some respect, and don't give me that crap that paying dues somehow entitles you to it...volunteer your time, join a committee, stop bitching...anything but whining about this issue.

(notice i didn't call you a left wing bunny hugging *************************, did you??)

Mookie

 

[rstev1955]

Do any of you honestly think this bill would not have passed if ALPA opposed it?? How about a reality check. It was going to happen whether ALPA supported it or not. And for the record, the ALPA Executive Committee did not vote to support a change of the law, they voted to have an input if it was going to be changed anyway (which it was).

The majority of regional airlines have upgrade times of less than 2 years right now, and even if it doubles (it won't) it will still be less than how long it took those 60 year old pilots to sit in the left seat when they were hired.

In 2 years this topic will be a non-issue, once people see it does not have the impact they thought it would.

 

[PCL_128]

Do any of you honestly think this bill would not have passed if ALPA opposed it??

The bill never would have even made it to the floor of the House for a vote if ALPA had stood by the membership and opposed the change. The Congressman that introduced the legislation was ALPA's biggest buddy on the Hill, and he was Chairman of the Committee that had the power to hold this up for quite a while. Instead, Prater screwed everyone over and forced his own agenda.