Eagle whipping APA into shape?

[siucavflight]

Yes, the One World Alliance is most certainly subject to scope. Any flight that carries the AA code is subject to APA scope. If you'd actually read the APA scope clause then you'd see that there are sections of the APA scope clause carved out to allow for these operations that you list. There is no such allowance for the doomsday scenario that you proposed at the beginning of the thread.

Thats where you are wrong, so what you are saying is that if someone where to book a flight on Eagle from say Denver to DFW, AA would be unable to put bags on the AA 757 going from DFW to London because of scope? And I have read the entire APA scope contract, it would allow for this.


Why is the APA suddenly so nervous, and so anxious to get us onto the same seniority list?

 

[catIIIc]

Yes, the One World Alliance is most certainly subject to scope. Any flight that carries the AA code is subject to APA scope. If you'd actually read the APA scope clause then you'd see that there are sections of the APA scope clause carved out to allow for these operations that you list. There is no such allowance for the doomsday scenario that you proposed at the beginning of the thread.

Exactly what I have been trying to say, if AA could have used this loophole they would instantly tried to exploit it starting in 2003 when this contract was signed. Heck they knew operating Reno as a seperate airline violated Scope but they did it anyway. All codeshare's are subject to APA Scope, the Domestic codeshare agreement with Alaska was negotiated with APA and any other domestic codeshare would have to be also.

 

[PCL_128]

You might want to talk with your dad again, because your understanding of code shares and scope clauses seems to be very limited. The APA scope clause contains separate sections for domestic code share, international code shares, commuter carrier codes shares, etc... Each section contains different restrictions and requirements. There is simply no section in the agreement that would allow AMR to do what you suggest.

 

[siucavflight]

You might want to talk with your dad again, because your understanding of code shares and scope clauses seems to be very limited. The APA scope clause contains separate sections for domestic code share, international code shares, commuter carrier codes shares, etc... Each section contains different restrictions and requirements. There is simply no section in the agreement that would allow AMR to do what you suggest.

But if Eagle was its own airline APA has no say what Eagle does, they can do whatever they want and pick up all of the flying that is left behind by an AA shrinkage of flying.
Dont get me wrong, I am not in favor of this in the least bit, I dont want to be any part of this.
I am not saying that it will happen, I am saying that this is what the company is using as leverage in the negotiations that are happening right now.
It is a serious threat to all of our profession. I want to fly 100 seaters around, but I want to do it at legacy carriers pay rates and not our regional pay rates.
And maybe I used the word code share wrong, I should have said partnered with, as in tickets transferable, and baggage being carried over.

The APA is worried about this threat, again this is why they want to combine list quickly.

 

[PCL_128]

But if Eagle was its own airline APA has no say what Eagle does, they can do whatever they want and pick up all of the flying that is left behind by an AA shrinkage of flying.

And again, they can't do this if Eagle were to codeshare with American. Anyone that codeshares with American is subject to the APA scope language. It really is that simple.

 

[siucavflight]

And again, they can't do this if Eagle were to codeshare with American. Anyone that codeshares with American is subject to the APA scope language. It really is that simple.

Again, if Eagle is its own airline they can do whatever they want to do. The investors will get the profits, and that is all there is too it. APA has no say what other airlines do.

 

[PCL_128]

Again, if Eagle is its own airline they can do whatever they want to do. The investors will get the profits, and that is all there is too it. APA has no say what other airlines do.

APA has a say in what other airlines do if they codeshare with American. If AMR wants customers to be able to call American reservations and book a flight on Eagle or a flight that connects from Eagle to AMR or vice-versa, then they have to comply with APA scope language. You claim to have read the APA Section 1 language, but you're making that very hard to believe.

 

[catIIIc]

How would the stand alone Eagle get money to fly these routes with no reservations and no gates, everything is tied to AMR and as soon as the AA code is added those new Eagle flights so AMR can make money APA's scope comes into play. THis not what AMR is trying to do with Eagle,if I am wrong I will be the first to admit it but AMR just wants cheaper feed.

 

[siucavflight]

Time will tell, and I hope you are right. But like it or not, Eagle is being used to leverage the APA into accecpting a lower contract offer then they want to.
Eagle will never be divested, this is all a threat, that is what I am getting at. AMR floats this, the APA gets nervous. No one can really replace Eagle as AAs feed, and AMR knows this, all the other regionals can not even staff themselves to fly the contracts that they know.
Again I am not cheering this on, I dont want to see it happen, but this is what AMR is doing.

 

[chignutsak]

Damn man I'd like to whipsaw those two hotties...

 

[siucavflight]

Yes that would be fun.

 

[flyer172r]

Again, if Eagle is its own airline they can do whatever they want to do. The investors will get the profits, and that is all there is too it. APA has no say what other airlines do.

When Chautauqua first started flying 170s for United and Delta they had to pay a huge fine to American because it violated their scope clause. It didn't matter that none of the 170s were flown for American. Because Chautauqua codeshared with American they technically weren't allowed to fly 70 seaters for anyone else. That's also why (among other reasons) TSA started Gojet; they needed a separate certificate to fly 700s for United because of TSA's American codeshare.

 

[siucavflight]

I dont think that anyone understands what I am getting at, if Eagle was divested from AMR, they would not be flying feed for American, rather they would be their own airline flying their own routes, it would just so happen that many of the AMR stock holders would also own Eagle stock.

 

[PCL_128]

The AMR shareholders wouldn't care that they own the shares of the "new" Eagle, because the value of their shares is based on the American brand. Since it would be against APA scope, Eagle wouldn't be able to operate as the American brand, so the value of the Eagle shares would be nil. Sorry, but your theory just doesn't hold water.

 

[siucavflight]

Yes, your opinion may vary from mine, but a new airline flying AAs old routes domestically while paying the employees half what they were paying mainline means a very lucrative new company for the share holders.