What do you think of NWA so far?

[123]

It would be nice to see more improvements to the first month in Mecca (which actually is a cool place to live!), but I think if you made a priority list of improvements we'd like to see here, New Hire hand-holding would be well down the list.

Whaddya think?

I agree, on the list of priorities from the pilots standpoint....very low. I just think that here is another opportunity squandered by the company to begin a culture change. The company is in full hiring mode and they are missing out on trying to get a little bit of company pride in the new hires. This should be a corporate goal, not ALPA. I guess the biggest problem is that we really don't have a "brand" being promoted from within. Baby steps I guess after bk.

As Nu said, the -9 training dept is absolutely top notch. Seems to be a big difference between indoc and aircraft training goals. Maybe it was different for the guys/gals returning from furlough vs what the new hires are getting now.

Mecca (which actually is a cool place to live!)

Hah...right now is is a very cool

 

[FmrFreightDog]

This makes it even more confusing that new-hire indoc is the way it is, not only from the company side, but the ALPA side as well . And I don't mean indoc, as in "here's the FOM, now tell me about hold-over tables", but the real information new guys and gals need to navigate around a large company.

Nu

Oh, well, that's good to hear. I was beginning to think I was just the dumb one in class

 

[holmie]

I hope that the guy that ran the first week of INDOC back in 2000 has been gotten rid of, what a d!ck head. Never been talked down to and treated like sh1t more in my airline career! I really thought I had made a bad choice at the time since I had left another major that served coffee and donuts at Indoc served by young hotties in short skirts and was way laid back. Training on the 9 was good though and they want to do all they can to get you through the ride.

 

[NuGuy]

So, should we give these things back?

What we DID get back then, that stayed to this day, are things like Positive Space commuting to/from training, hotels for non-MSP based pilots, and an extra day off.

We might be able to trade 'em for something. We had to forego other things to get them in the first place...so how 'bout we get 3-extra days with pay so someone can explain to New Hires how Crew Skeds and ATLASBid works...but you gotta keep your butt in MSP the whole time (on your own nickel, even if you're DTW-based), or take your chances trying to get the jumpseat?

Is it a trade?

I think more hand-holding is a good idea. Always have. The ALPA Pizza Nights were designed to pass-along some of the gouge, and I did a bunch of them!

If we put it to a vote...right now...on the issue of improving the indoctrination of New Hires, how do you think it would fare when measured against the other priorites we have?

EVERYBODY votes, mind you. Including crusty old veterans like you!

Heyas Occam,

Why do we need to give up ANYTHING? That sounds just like the guys who say "well, if we want parking passes for commuters at their home, then we need to give something up"

This isn't a zero sum game, as much as the company would want it to be. The sooner we get over that mentality, the better off we'll all be.

Now, with that said, I agree that this is, in the big scheme of things, a fairly low ranking priority with the rank and file. Too much of the old RB mojo ("I didn't have any help, so tough cookie") still floating around.

123, your comments about the difference in attitude between basic indoc and fleet training is certainly not new. When I was teaching, we'd get new hires that were scared sh!tless about doing anything wrong to the point where they were jumping at their own shadows. It took at least 2-3 sims to get them to settle down and to de-program them that it was TRAINING, NOT CHECKING, so relax, enjoy the material and have a good time with it (but still study).

Legend has it that Indoc was kinder and gentler at one point, but some people took advantage of it, and they clamped down.

 

[JAM-BRO]

I hope that the guy that ran the first week of INDOC back in 2000 has been gotten rid of, what a d!ck head. Never been talked down to and treated like sh1t more in my airline career! I really thought I had made a bad choice at the time since I had left another major that served coffee and donuts at Indoc served by young hotties in short skirts and was way laid back. Training on the 9 was good though and they want to do all they can to get you through the ride.

Are you talking about Ray. If it was him, that guy is a DI¢K HEAD... I had him for Indoc.

 

[Sir Innocenti]

On a similar note, We at Compass are represented by the same MEC and have had ZERO introduction to a union official to ask questions pertaining to NWA ops/introduction.....How do we fix this??? Im an ALPA veteran and have NEVER gone this long into my employment (2 months) without being in contact by a union official for introduction!

 

[Guam360]

just for conversations sake, is there or could there be orders for 319's to replace -9's instead of the assumed E175's that haven't come up in conversation here?

Doesn't Airbus like to give those things away if you have some already. 319 could be a great replacement.

???

G

 

[aircowboy]

I have to agree with you Nu. Our "on-boarding" process is terrible (even as a returning furloughee, I would have never been informed about the phone check-in and other "gotchas" had it not been mentioned by buddies that started a couple weeks earlier). There are a lot of simple, no/low cost ways to improve the initial training visit to building N. If the company wants a culture change, they need to look to all the new hires (not just pilots). Company pride has never been sold by anyone I have met at NWA. Where is that employee focus group????

What is the "phone check in and other gotchas" maybe you could give us a list of need to knows since a bunch of us on here will soon be on property. Thanks

 

[Occam's Razor]

Why do we need to give up ANYTHING? That sounds just like the guys who say "well, if we want parking passes for commuters at their home, then we need to give something up"

This isn't a zero sum game, as much as the company would want it to be. The sooner we get over that mentality, the better off we'll all be.

Concur. We try to convince the management drones that it is in their best interests to have New Hires "snapped-in" on how things are done. We emphasize the benefit of good morale in a service industry.

Unfortunately, the mid-level drones who control decisions in that area are given MBO's they must achieve...or lose their bonus/job. Adding days, time, and expense to the New Hire Indoc footprint impacts their ability to be successful on that all-important MBO Scorecard.

The enhancements we got for New Hires were gained by lumping them into larger packages that addressed other items. I mention them for two reasons:

1. Any claim that "senior guys" don't care is wrong. We've done it in the past, and it wasn't done by New Hires. It was done by senior guys like you and me!

2. We've gained them when the Possession Arrow was in our favor. We slipped them in with higher priority issues.

It sucks to "pay" for something that should be common sense, but I'm glad we've done what we have. I think most New Hires appreciate it too.

 

[NuGuy]

What is the "phone check in and other gotchas" maybe you could give us a list of need to knows since a bunch of us on here will soon be on property. Thanks

Heyas Cowboy,

When you get to work, you sign in by an automated telephone system. You pick up the phone, enter your ID and it checks you in.

Back in the day, say, about till 2005, you would to check in with a real live person at the check in desk. They would also handle deadhead/travel arrangements as well as a number of other administrative chores. VERY nice people. The lady that worked the check in desk in MSP was beloved.

Nu

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The enhancements we got for New Hires were gained by lumping them into larger packages that addressed other items.

Sounds like legislative methodologies on the Hill

 

[PHXFLYR]

Heyas,

What you guys might find is that once at NWA, people don't really chat about it. I noticed that when people get hired, they seem to disappear down a black hole.

Sure, there are a few chatty souls, like myself and Occam, but some of the things you will almost never see about NWA are poolie lists, interview gouge, profiles, class drops, training schedules, and the like.

Once people are on, they just vanish...very creepy...and I'm not really sure of the reason, whether it's the training schedule, shame, self absorption or whatever.

A lot of people come to NWA, and after about a week go "WTF have I gotten myself into?" once they figure out how unconnected everything is, or how important new hire infomration is seemingly absent or unpublished (NWA = Not Written Anywhere), the "blue/green/red" or NB/WB conflicts, or that MSP can be a very strange, depressing place (especially in winter), with a very Stepford Wives like attitude from everone that lives there (after a week, the "MSP is so great, why would anyone want to live anywhere else?" attitude gets REALLY old).

So, to all those that have gotten on at NWA: Welcome, and I'm sorry for "sign of the twins" that new hires have to fly under (Panic & Confusion).

Nu

Gee, sounds just like my 'new job' at USAirways !!


Phxflyr

 

[Spectre]

If a merge happens do you really think those 130+ aging DC-9s will remain on the property? If not, how many pilots will still be on the property then? Fuel effiecient aircraft is a must with today's fuel prices.

Believe me, it is much better to be at a company with growth plans rather one which has an ever shrinking fleet. The A330s just replaced the retired DC-10s. The B-787s are not on the property yet. The DC-9s are past 30 years old and WILL be parked. Growth at NWA is at Pinnicle, Mesaba, and Compass, not mainline. The reason for the cold shoulder for new hires is probably because you won't be there long...

I do agree that the NWA training department is first class from the DC-9s on up. The pilots there are awesome too. It's just everything else about the operation that stinks. Everyone talks big about unions there, yet all the mechanics who work at NWA are scabs from other airlines. Remember the mechanic strike? They all lost their jobs!!!

Retirements at NWA are not happening as fast as you think. Research the seniority list. It has the birthdates of each pilot listed. Don't know where you got your 50% retirement numbers? You'll see a very different picture. You're gonna have to hope a lot of them can't get their medicals vs. retiring at age 60!

I researched all of this before I turned in my seniority number at NWA. The reason for the need for new hires is because the overall low return rate of furloughed NWA pilots. Get the picture? Ever wonder why no one is going back?

 

[Fly4hire]

Heyas,

What you guys might find is that once at NWA, people don't really chat about it. I noticed that when people get hired, they seem to disappear down a black hole.
Nu

Perhaps they are too busy studying systems and preparing for sims than hanging out here.....

 

[JAM-BRO]

If a merge happens do you really think those 130+ aging DC-9s will remain on the property? If not, how many pilots will still be on the property then? Fuel effiecient aircraft is a must with today's fuel prices.
We don't have 130+ DC9s. More like 100 flying. Next 2-3 years that number wont change...
Believe me, it is much better to be at a company with growth plans rather one which has an ever shrinking fleet. The A330s just replaced the retired DC-10s. The B-787s are not on the property yet. The DC-9s are past 30 years old and WILL be parked. Growth at NWA is at Pinnicle, Mesaba, and Compass, not mainline. The reason for the cold shoulder for new hires is probably because you won't be there long...
Go fly there if you think it is better....
I do agree that the NWA training department is first class from the DC-9s on up. The pilots there are awesome too. It's just everything else about the operation that stinks. Everyone talks big about unions there, yet all the mechanics who work at NWA are scabs from other airlines. Remember the mechanic strike? They all lost their jobs!!!
The mechs shot themselves in the foot. The SCABS are all NWA mechs who crossed the line. It stinks here just as much as it stinks over at JB.
Retirements at NWA are not happening as fast as you think. Research the seniority list. It has the birthdates of each pilot listed. Don't know where you got your 50% retirement numbers? You'll see a very different picture. You're gonna have to hope a lot of them can't get their medicals vs. retiring at age 60!
The 50% comes from the fact that 50% of the pilots at NWA are 50 or older. In 10 yrs they will be gone...
I researched all of this before I turned in my seniority number at NWA. The reason for the need for new hires is because the overall low return rate of furloughed NWA pilots. Get the picture? Ever wonder why no one is going back?
Some did not come back, but a lot have. Your research is a bit screwy.

Be happy!!!!

 

[JAM-BRO]

Heyas,

What you guys might find is that once at NWA, people don't really chat about it. I noticed that when people get hired, they seem to disappear down a black hole.

Sure, there are a few chatty souls, like myself and Occam, but some of the things you will almost never see about NWA are poolie lists, interview gouge, profiles, class drops, training schedules, and the like.

Once people are on, they just vanish...very creepy...and I'm not really sure of the reason, whether it's the training schedule, shame, self absorption or whatever.

A lot of people come to NWA, and after about a week go "WTF have I gotten myself into?" once they figure out how unconnected everything is, or how important new hire infomration is seemingly absent or unpublished (NWA = Not Written Anywhere), the "blue/green/red" or NB/WB conflicts, or that MSP can be a very strange, depressing place (especially in winter), with a very Stepford Wives like attitude from everone that lives there (after a week, the "MSP is so great, why would anyone want to live anywhere else?" attitude gets REALLY old).

So, to all those that have gotten on at NWA: Welcome, and I'm sorry for "sign of the twins" that new hires have to fly under (Panic & Confusion).

Nu

You keep spreading negative crap. Be happy!!
When I went through indoc, we spent about two days going over med benefits, PARS, ACCESS, etc. I thought it was a waste of time. Has that changed? 98 hire.

 

[NuGuy]

You keep spreading negative crap. Be happy!!
When I went through indoc, we spent about two days going over med benefits, PARS, ACCESS, etc. I thought it was a waste of time. Has that changed? 98 hire.

The only thing we had were two two ladies that came in from crew scheduling. One sat down and put her feet up on the desk and said (an this is an actual quote) "we basically own you.".

As for benefits, computer usage, Classbid (as it was called then), nothing....

Nu

 

[123]

I am not sure what the new hires are getting now, but I will say that for my recall class, Troy S. was absolutely awesome and actually cared about us. He took us through some of the computer stuff and benefits, told us who to contact for other questions, etc. Now, he is the manager, and I am sure his time could have been better spent with other things going on, but he always made us feel welcome. I guess the rest of indoc is really so dry that there isn't a way to dress it up (duty times, FOM, etc).

Just for the record, I am extremely HAPPY to be here at NWA (even after 5.5 yrs on the street). Could things be better, you bet, but things could also be worse!

Livin the dream...........

 

[John Pennekamp]

I had made a bad choice at the time since I had left another major that served coffee and donuts at Indoc served by young hotties in short skirts and was way laid back.

Details? Company?

 

[Spectre]

Heck, my first day at NWA training, the instructor said, "Congrats, you guys have all just become millionaires." He was referring to the NWA 6 figure retirement we'd all have after 20 years of flying...We all know what happened to that eh?