What do you think of NWA so far?

[terryhfly]

To those that have made the move to NWA how do you like it so far? Likes and Dislikes. What are the latest projections as far as growth and movement? What airplane and base did you get? Any information about the company would be appreciated. Also, if you want to blab about the interview that would be fine to.

 

[propdog]

Well...I have not started class yet...however, I can give you some info.

If you are looking for movement, NWA seems to be the place. 52% retiring in the next ten years (provided age 60 stays in place). If age 65 passes, it is not going to change that much because many are taking their frozen pensions and are opting for early retirements. NWA has the senior-most pilots in the US industry currently.

Currently they are under-staffed. They need to hire just to get level. On top of that 18 787s are coming with 50 options. This will need a bunch of additional pilots on top of all the retirements to cover these. I would not be surprised to see a 3 year DC-9 CA upgrade in property soon. Currently there are estimates of 400+ new-hires in 2008.

Most new-hires are getting DTW, MSP DC-9. Some are getting 747-FE ANC. Currently 747-FE is the junior most seat. DC-9 reserve in DTW is only 3-6 months long.

New-hires do not have seat locks. You can bid out of the initially assigned aircraft ASAP. In a few months, new-hires are rumored to go the the 320 as well.

Anything over 80 hrs / month paid at 1.5 times. Company cannot schedule you for more than 90 hrs.

More Asian expansion projected with the arrival of 787s. Some limited European expansion taking place with 757s and 330s.

As for the negatives, the morale needs improvement. The current low pay will stay till 2011 as the contract is locked till then. Some DC-9s are being parked. The freight side is not doing all that well. They just lost their largest contract (DHL) effective end of next year. 1 747-200 already parked....more could be parked if new business is not found.

Looking to hear more from new-hires on-line....

 

[Tomct]

All of those new hires (400) provided they don't merge with someone....right? If that happens watch out! Had a friend of mine furloughed 3 times and decided to leave NWA all together. Good luck!

 

[propdog]

All of those new hires (400) provided they don't merge with someone....right? If that happens watch out! Had a friend of mine furloughed 3 times and decided to leave NWA all together. Good luck!

If NWA merge, all US legacies will merge...it is none or all...(if NWA hooks up with DAL, CAL will hook up with UAL or something similar) I would rather be at the head end of hiring at NWA with massive retirements (52% in ten years) than be at CAL (36% retirements in ten years and 1500+ already hired) or DAL (youngest US legacy pilot group with very few retirements---if age 65 passes, DAL will have only around 5% retirements in the next ten years).

Also, in the unfortunate event of a furlough, NWA has a flow down to Compass...some job is better than none. Just my opinion...

But oh well...this business is such a crap shoot...very difficult to plan!

 

[p3flteng]

I also am a new hire at NWA who just finished indoc and will be starting DC9 systems soon. I believe the future will be brite at NWA at least for me as I am in the front of the hiring wave. If the merger happens well then I will deal with it, but I hope it either doesn't, or holds for a couple of years to give me some breathing room. Either way it should be OK as they are short staffed by I figure 500 pilots not including 25 a month retirements and expansion / 787 new comers late next year or early 09.
I think this is a great place to be and at the right time. Happy to be a Red Tail.

 

[volav8r1]

p3flteng,
Do you know if they are still offereing MEM right out of training? I start on the 31st and was hoping for MEM. Thanks!

 

[p3flteng]

Three DC9 FO's for MEM out of my class.

 

[kmox29]

Happy to be a Red Tail.

That may be the last time you ever utter those words!

On a serious note...congrats on your new job!

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

What you guys might find is that once at NWA, people don't really chat about it. I noticed that when people get hired, they seem to disappear down a black hole.

Sure, there are a few chatty souls, like myself and Occam, but some of the things you will almost never see about NWA are poolie lists, interview gouge, profiles, class drops, training schedules, and the like.

Once people are on, they just vanish...very creepy...and I'm not really sure of the reason, whether it's the training schedule, shame, self absorption or whatever.

A lot of people come to NWA, and after about a week go "WTF have I gotten myself into?" once they figure out how unconnected everything is, or how important new hire infomration is seemingly absent or unpublished (NWA = Not Written Anywhere), the "blue/green/red" or NB/WB conflicts, or that MSP can be a very strange, depressing place (especially in winter), with a very Stepford Wives like attitude from everone that lives there (after a week, the "MSP is so great, why would anyone want to live anywhere else?" attitude gets REALLY old).

So, to all those that have gotten on at NWA: Welcome, and I'm sorry for "sign of the twins" that new hires have to fly under (Panic & Confusion).

Nu

 

[Cardinal]

terry, is there something we should know?

 

[cargoflyr69]

A lot of people come to NWA, and after about a week go "WTF have I gotten myself into?" once they figure out how unconnected everything is, or how important new hire infomration is seemingly absent or unpublished (NWA = Not Written Anywhere), the "blue/green/red" or NB/WB conflicts, or that MSP can be a very strange, depressing place (especially in winter), with a very Stepford Wives like attitude from everone that lives there (after a week, the "MSP is so great, why would anyone want to live anywhere else?" attitude gets REALLY old).

I've been on property about 2 months now and am in the middle of OE.

I can echo the "NWA=Not Written Anywhere" part. They taught us how to fly the airplane very well, but all the other employee things such as: getting signed up for benefits, how to get to OE base, where the crew room is, how to bid a schedule, ect. was hardly even talked about in indoc save for the 5-10 minutes that Crew Planning spent with us on day 2 of indoc.

Yes, sometimes it does feel frusterated and confusing not knowing the answers to things, But I've found for myself a good survival strategy is to ask ask ask! Play the new-guy card and glean all the info you can about non-airplane info that you can from anyone that will lend and ear. I've gotten good info from counter people, flight attendants, especially the check airman. I guess its CRM if you will

Its a big learning curve here, but i still think things are put together better than where I came from. I'm enjoying the ride! And yes, MSP is a great place to live and why would anyone live elsewhere

 

[johnsonrod]

Are newhires not concerned about the impending disposal of DC9s? What are the HR people telling you about your job security with regard to the departing DC9s? Will the retirements cover for departing DC9s and preserve jobs?

What about growth at Compass - does that not concern anyone on the Diesel 9s since the E175s will basically replace the DC9s?

I guess I would be concerned about a number of things if I were a NWA newhire - I wouldn't feel that secure at the moment. I'd love to hear how current newhires address those concerns.

Personally, I don't see a merger happening - you won't find a merger of equals because it would force the entire industry to consolidate and Congress/DOJ would not allow that (you can't have one big merger and then not allow others to merge). One legacy would have to be in absolute dire straits (i.e., USAirways before the US/AWA merger) for anything to be considered. Don't count on that.

 

[contrail67]

Just flew with a guy yesterday from NWA and he said new hires are future Compass pilots...just don't know it yet.

 

[123]

Are newhires not concerned about the impending disposal of DC9s? What are the HR people telling you about your job security with regard to the departing DC9s? Will the retirements cover for departing DC9s and preserve jobs?

I think that everyone here is concerned about what the future plans are for a -9 replacement however, I don't see the nine being completely gone in the very near term (2 years) It is my understanding that we are bringing 2 of the -9 sims back up to full flight capability in order to hopefully train at least 40 new pilots a month in the -9 (someone else with better intel can probably expand on this).

What about growth at Compass - does that not concern anyone on the Diesel 9s since the E175s will basically replace the DC9s?

I think it concerns everyone, but we also have 18 orders for the 787 and are increasing the 320 and 757 flying while our crackpot mgmt team studies a DC9 replacement. Compass can not cover all of the flying that the -9 does.

I guess I would be concerned about a number of things if I were a NWA newhire - I wouldn't feel that secure at the moment. I'd love to hear how current newhires address those concerns.

How are you handling the concerns for $100/barrel oil? Is anyone all that secure, in any industry?

Personally, I don't see a merger happening - you won't find a merger of equals because it would force the entire industry to consolidate and Congress/DOJ would not allow that (you can't have one big merger and then not allow others to merge). One legacy would have to be in absolute dire straits (i.e., USAirways before the US/AWA merger) for anything to be considered. Don't count on that.

I hope a merger doesn't happen, but I wont be surprised when I see the headline on TV. If a merger of two majors is agreed to, I am sure that Congress will approve it (with some stipulations that will have already been agreed to by all party's)

 

[123]

Heyas,

What you guys might find is that once at NWA, people don't really chat about it. I noticed that when people get hired, they seem to disappear down a black hole.

Sure, there are a few chatty souls, like myself and Occam, but some of the things you will almost never see about NWA are poolie lists, interview gouge, profiles, class drops, training schedules, and the like.

Once people are on, they just vanish...very creepy...and I'm not really sure of the reason, whether it's the training schedule, shame, self absorption or whatever.

A lot of people come to NWA, and after about a week go "WTF have I gotten myself into?" once they figure out how unconnected everything is, or how important new hire infomration is seemingly absent or unpublished (NWA = Not Written Anywhere), the "blue/green/red" or NB/WB conflicts, or that MSP can be a very strange, depressing place (especially in winter), with a very Stepford Wives like attitude from everone that lives there (after a week, the "MSP is so great, why would anyone want to live anywhere else?" attitude gets REALLY old).

So, to all those that have gotten on at NWA: Welcome, and I'm sorry for "sign of the twins" that new hires have to fly under (Panic & Confusion).

Nu

I have to agree with you Nu. Our "on-boarding" process is terrible (even as a returning furloughee, I would have never been informed about the phone check-in and other "gotchas" had it not been mentioned by buddies that started a couple weeks earlier). There are a lot of simple, no/low cost ways to improve the initial training visit to building N. If the company wants a culture change, they need to look to all the new hires (not just pilots). Company pride has never been sold by anyone I have met at NWA. Where is that employee focus group????

 

[p3flteng]

All right, I will admit that they could improve the general info that is disseminated to a new hire. There is some very basic low to no cost things they could do to make it easier for us to understand and grasp Northwest procedures.

With that said, I do not need to be spoon fed to survive in this world. Every other Northwest pilot was a newhire at one point in time, and over 5000 guys ( and girls ) have been able to get through it and successfully function. So can I.

 

[Occam's Razor]

There are a lot of simple, no/low cost ways to improve the initial training visit to building N. If the company wants a culture change, they need to look to all the new hires (not just pilots). Company pride has never been sold by anyone I have met at NWA. Where is that employee focus group????

Agree. In 1994, ALPA made a big deal of the crappy "real world" Indoc that New Hires were getting. After about 6-months of increased "hand holding", management scrapped it. They claim they never saw a return on the investment.

What we DID get back then, that stayed to this day, are things like Positive Space commuting to/from training, hotels for non-MSP based pilots, and an extra day off.

It would be nice to see more improvements to the first month in Mecca (which actually is a cool place to live!), but I think if you made a priority list of improvements we'd like to see here, New Hire hand-holding would be well down the list.

Whaddya think?

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

I will echo what 123 and Cargo said. The actual flight training, performed by the individual fleets at NWA is without comparason in the industry (IMHO). Probably THE most professinal group of people I've ever had the pleasure to deal with.

This makes it even more confusing that new-hire indoc is the way it is, not only from the company side, but the ALPA side as well . And I don't mean indoc, as in "here's the FOM, now tell me about hold-over tables", but the real information new guys and gals need to navigate around a large company.

Nu

 

[NuGuy]

Every other Northwest pilot was a newhire at one point in time, and over 5000 guys ( and girls ) have been able to get through it and successfully function. So can I.

Lot's of old timers have that same attitude. That's why things will never change.

In response to Occam. Sure, there are higher priority items over all, but there are lots of people out there willing to spend the time (at least on the ALPA side) to make things a BIT easier.

Sadly, the newbies have rarely been a priority, which stems back to the old RB way of thinking: "well, nobody did anything for me, so tough luck!". It's that very thinking that has help put us where we are today.

Nu

 

[Occam's Razor]

In response to Occam. Sure, there are higher priority items over all, but there are lots of people out there willing to spend the time (at least on the ALPA side) to make things a BIT easier.

Sadly, the newbies have rarely been a priority,

So, should we give these things back?

What we DID get back then, that stayed to this day, are things like Positive Space commuting to/from training, hotels for non-MSP based pilots, and an extra day off.

We might be able to trade 'em for something. We had to forego other things to get them in the first place...so how 'bout we get 3-extra days with pay so someone can explain to New Hires how Crew Skeds and ATLASBid works...but you gotta keep your butt in MSP the whole time (on your own nickel, even if you're DTW-based), or take your chances trying to get the jumpseat?

Is it a trade?

I think more hand-holding is a good idea. Always have. The ALPA Pizza Nights were designed to pass-along some of the gouge, and I did a bunch of them!

If we put it to a vote...right now...on the issue of improving the indoctrination of New Hires, how do you think it would fare when measured against the other priorites we have?

EVERYBODY votes, mind you. Including crusty old veterans like you!

 

[123]

It would be nice to see more improvements to the first month in Mecca (which actually is a cool place to live!), but I think if you made a priority list of improvements we'd like to see here, New Hire hand-holding would be well down the list.

Whaddya think?

I agree, on the list of priorities from the pilots standpoint....very low. I just think that here is another opportunity squandered by the company to begin a culture change. The company is in full hiring mode and they are missing out on trying to get a little bit of company pride in the new hires. This should be a corporate goal, not ALPA. I guess the biggest problem is that we really don't have a "brand" being promoted from within. Baby steps I guess after bk.

As Nu said, the -9 training dept is absolutely top notch. Seems to be a big difference between indoc and aircraft training goals. Maybe it was different for the guys/gals returning from furlough vs what the new hires are getting now.

Mecca (which actually is a cool place to live!)

Hah...right now is is a very cool

 

[FmrFreightDog]

This makes it even more confusing that new-hire indoc is the way it is, not only from the company side, but the ALPA side as well . And I don't mean indoc, as in "here's the FOM, now tell me about hold-over tables", but the real information new guys and gals need to navigate around a large company.

Nu

Oh, well, that's good to hear. I was beginning to think I was just the dumb one in class

 

[holmie]

I hope that the guy that ran the first week of INDOC back in 2000 has been gotten rid of, what a d!ck head. Never been talked down to and treated like sh1t more in my airline career! I really thought I had made a bad choice at the time since I had left another major that served coffee and donuts at Indoc served by young hotties in short skirts and was way laid back. Training on the 9 was good though and they want to do all they can to get you through the ride.

 

[NuGuy]

So, should we give these things back?

What we DID get back then, that stayed to this day, are things like Positive Space commuting to/from training, hotels for non-MSP based pilots, and an extra day off.

We might be able to trade 'em for something. We had to forego other things to get them in the first place...so how 'bout we get 3-extra days with pay so someone can explain to New Hires how Crew Skeds and ATLASBid works...but you gotta keep your butt in MSP the whole time (on your own nickel, even if you're DTW-based), or take your chances trying to get the jumpseat?

Is it a trade?

I think more hand-holding is a good idea. Always have. The ALPA Pizza Nights were designed to pass-along some of the gouge, and I did a bunch of them!

If we put it to a vote...right now...on the issue of improving the indoctrination of New Hires, how do you think it would fare when measured against the other priorites we have?

EVERYBODY votes, mind you. Including crusty old veterans like you!

Heyas Occam,

Why do we need to give up ANYTHING? That sounds just like the guys who say "well, if we want parking passes for commuters at their home, then we need to give something up"

This isn't a zero sum game, as much as the company would want it to be. The sooner we get over that mentality, the better off we'll all be.

Now, with that said, I agree that this is, in the big scheme of things, a fairly low ranking priority with the rank and file. Too much of the old RB mojo ("I didn't have any help, so tough cookie") still floating around.

123, your comments about the difference in attitude between basic indoc and fleet training is certainly not new. When I was teaching, we'd get new hires that were scared sh!tless about doing anything wrong to the point where they were jumping at their own shadows. It took at least 2-3 sims to get them to settle down and to de-program them that it was TRAINING, NOT CHECKING, so relax, enjoy the material and have a good time with it (but still study).

Legend has it that Indoc was kinder and gentler at one point, but some people took advantage of it, and they clamped down.

 

[JAM-BRO]

I hope that the guy that ran the first week of INDOC back in 2000 has been gotten rid of, what a d!ck head. Never been talked down to and treated like sh1t more in my airline career! I really thought I had made a bad choice at the time since I had left another major that served coffee and donuts at Indoc served by young hotties in short skirts and was way laid back. Training on the 9 was good though and they want to do all they can to get you through the ride.

Are you talking about Ray. If it was him, that guy is a DI¢K HEAD... I had him for Indoc.

 

[Sir Innocenti]

On a similar note, We at Compass are represented by the same MEC and have had ZERO introduction to a union official to ask questions pertaining to NWA ops/introduction.....How do we fix this??? Im an ALPA veteran and have NEVER gone this long into my employment (2 months) without being in contact by a union official for introduction!

 

[Guam360]

just for conversations sake, is there or could there be orders for 319's to replace -9's instead of the assumed E175's that haven't come up in conversation here?

Doesn't Airbus like to give those things away if you have some already. 319 could be a great replacement.

???

G

 

[aircowboy]

I have to agree with you Nu. Our "on-boarding" process is terrible (even as a returning furloughee, I would have never been informed about the phone check-in and other "gotchas" had it not been mentioned by buddies that started a couple weeks earlier). There are a lot of simple, no/low cost ways to improve the initial training visit to building N. If the company wants a culture change, they need to look to all the new hires (not just pilots). Company pride has never been sold by anyone I have met at NWA. Where is that employee focus group????

What is the "phone check in and other gotchas" maybe you could give us a list of need to knows since a bunch of us on here will soon be on property. Thanks

 

[Occam's Razor]

Why do we need to give up ANYTHING? That sounds just like the guys who say "well, if we want parking passes for commuters at their home, then we need to give something up"

This isn't a zero sum game, as much as the company would want it to be. The sooner we get over that mentality, the better off we'll all be.

Concur. We try to convince the management drones that it is in their best interests to have New Hires "snapped-in" on how things are done. We emphasize the benefit of good morale in a service industry.

Unfortunately, the mid-level drones who control decisions in that area are given MBO's they must achieve...or lose their bonus/job. Adding days, time, and expense to the New Hire Indoc footprint impacts their ability to be successful on that all-important MBO Scorecard.

The enhancements we got for New Hires were gained by lumping them into larger packages that addressed other items. I mention them for two reasons:

1. Any claim that "senior guys" don't care is wrong. We've done it in the past, and it wasn't done by New Hires. It was done by senior guys like you and me!

2. We've gained them when the Possession Arrow was in our favor. We slipped them in with higher priority issues.

It sucks to "pay" for something that should be common sense, but I'm glad we've done what we have. I think most New Hires appreciate it too.

 

[NuGuy]

What is the "phone check in and other gotchas" maybe you could give us a list of need to knows since a bunch of us on here will soon be on property. Thanks

Heyas Cowboy,

When you get to work, you sign in by an automated telephone system. You pick up the phone, enter your ID and it checks you in.

Back in the day, say, about till 2005, you would to check in with a real live person at the check in desk. They would also handle deadhead/travel arrangements as well as a number of other administrative chores. VERY nice people. The lady that worked the check in desk in MSP was beloved.

Nu