Turboprop vs. Jet below 10,000'

[aa73]

Happens at DFW between AA and Eagle. Never fails.... we'll be the first Md80 approaching the hold short line, with an Eagle jet behind us on a different taxi lane, and they always launch the Eagles first. Even if they're behind us. What gives?

(Not complaining - paid by the minute. Just curious.)

73

 

[CA1900]

Never fails.... we'll be the first Md80 approaching the hold short line, with an Eagle jet behind us on a different taxi lane, and they always launch the Eagles first. Even if they're behind us. What gives?

Because they need some departure spacing, and they know Eagle will drive like a Florida grandmother getting to the runway.

 

[aa73]

Because they need some departure spacing, and they know Eagle will drive like a Florida grandmother getting to the runway.

If you mean drive slow, that's our specialty, man! Especially during contract time. Eagle usually hauls a$$ a la Southwest. However, I agree with the departure spacing... those EMBs climb pretty slow.

 

[Dragonbravo]

So we were going into PWM in a Dork and approach give us this rediculous vector to put a ERJ that is 10 miles behind us, in front of us. So here we are on a 35 mile final letting it run at 250 all so the faster jet can go first. Soon were hear "Jetlink, can you pick it up. The slower prop traffic I put behind you is doing at least 100 kts faster than you." We laughed all the way to the numbers.

 

[flyipilot]

I have to say that I have been flying since 1980, flown for a 121 airline for 9 years and am now at NetJets flying the fast Citation X. I have never had any trouble with any controllers in any airspace. I have to say the system is very good and I play by a simple rule and always have. I listen carefully and I always do what I am told..(have not yet had to declare an emergency). I have never had any trouble and although we have been vectored around and slowed..I assume a bigger picture is in play and it all works out in the end. I end up at the airport.. I do think it is cool when we get asked to stay fast to get in first..thanks! But, I am there to help make the system as smooth as it can be and to help other fellow pilots. We shold be one big team, (ATC and pilots). I flew out of ORD for 7 years with Atlantic Coast Airlines and those controllers were incredible! ON top of that they were very friendly! Wish I did send them pizza but, they would never have time to eat it..

Anyway, I know it can be frustrating for some pilots and it can be equally frustrating for controllers. We both get busy and both have strange SOP's. I say make it fun...listen well, communicate even better, and always help each other out!

Thanks to all the great controllers! Your great record of safety speaks for itself!

 

[Amish RakeFight]

wow dude. Are you on Prozac?

 

[flyipilot]

Is that an offer? I might be interested...tell me more.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Is that an offer? I might be interested...tell me more.

Nah, you seem fairly well-adjusted actually. It's good to be content.

Although many others around here could use a dose!

 

[flyipilot]

Well thank you!

 

[LXApilot]

I have noted on MANY occasions that SWA seems to get preferential treatment. Noted at many different airports, freqs, facilities, and from the cockpits of many different airlines and aircraft. There has to be more to this story... IMHO

 

[Amish RakeFight]

A while back a controller commented in a different thread that SWA complies so well that they are unofficially given preferential treatment.

 

[BcPilot99]

So I'm doing 250 inbound to the field when Southwest checks on. I can see on TCAS that he's further from the field than we are, and I KNOW he's limited to 250, just like all the rest of God's creatures below 10k. Both of us are headed direct to the field when ATC gives us, the turboprop, a 45 degree deviation to follow the jet.

It happens EVERY TIME, even if they're 5 or 10 miles behind us! We have these wicked speed brakes called "propellers", landing gear, and flaps. Heck, we can even slip it if we gotta. We routinely do 250 to the marker and only JUST hit our Vapp at 500' just as our FLOP calls for in a VFR stabilized approach. But when we're given the headings to follow the traffic, we end up having to hit the breaks and slow to 130kts on base to avoid getting a tour of the rest of the state.

What gives? This is starting to rub me raw.

Shy

At least your doing 250 below 10. Every time I am flying into CLE, atc puts us behind a dash and has us slow to 170 knots like 30nm from the field.

 

[t-bone]

This is probably by far the most confusing situation I have found myself in...

I was flying along in my Citation 10, doing M .90 on our way to TEB. We were somewhere within Chicago Center's airspace, 900 miles or so from our destination. Center gave us a 90 degree turn to the left, followed by a 180 turn to the right along with a "slow as practical" request, then back on course. I asked what this was for, and he informed me that someone in Washington's flow control center decided to make 2 other GA jets that were BEHIND us #1 and #2 to the airport, making us #3. The aircraft they made #1 was a Falcon 20, and they made a G4 #2. The controller even said "I don't understand it either. You are much faster than both of those other airplanes, I don't know why they didn't just leave you #1." After all that, by the time we got over Michigan we were given normal speed. I think we were eventually given a speed restriction on the arrival to follow the Falcon. Anyone know a Falcon 20's Vmo? Ours is 350 kias.

I know some/most Citations are affectionately known as slow-tations, but anything cruising at the speeds we cruise at can hardly qualify as slow.

Maybe the guy making the sequence decisions didn't know what C750 means, but surely he should have seen our 550+ kt groundspeed. Any insight as to what could have been going on that day?

 

[pilotyip]

Don't the jets have higher approach speeds? Don't we start slowing to apporach speeds 5-10 miles from the field, don't jets burn more fuel adding to the expense of the operation?

 

[Metro752]

At USA Jet we leave everyone behind. While Southwest is on a weather hold, USA Jet is launching to the same city, but a 5000 foot runway. Get some!