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Negative Outlook for American - Could IMPLODE!

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On Your Six

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Posts
4,507
Good times. This is an add-on to the other American thread on this forum. It looks like rough waters ahead for AA and all of its labor groups. Not much growth, tattered airplanes (those MD80s look older and more worn every day), mountains of debt, terrible labor-management relations, etc.

What do Arpey and his cronies expect after their multi-million dollar bonus distributions? That's ludicrous in this type of belt-tightening environment... Why do something that stupid and that visible to everyone else? It's a total lack of respect for labor...

The article below is nothing new in terms of news, but it a pretty good synopsis of the overall situation for those who are unfamiliar:

AP
American Rejects Pilots' Proposal
Friday November 9, 11:17 am ET
By David Koenig, AP Business Writer

American's Most Compliant Union Sounding Less Friendly


HURST, Texas (AP) -- American Airlines on Thursday rejected a pilots' union pay-raise proposal that it said would have cost the company more than $1.4 billion a year.


The airline said the proposal would boost American's pilot cost per work hour above the combined total for its two nearest competitors, Delta Air Lines Inc. and Continental Airlines Inc.

The Allied Pilots Association asked last month for a raise of 2.68 percent per year going back to 1992, which would have totaled more than 50 percent by May, when the union contract becomes amendable.
The pilots' union has been outspoken in its criticism of the company. But also on Thursday, American faced tough talk from the Transport Workers Union, which has been American's most compliant labor group since 2003, with mechanics working with executives to boost productivity to offset fewer workers.

TWU Vice President Dennis Burchette said his members want pay raises next year that will fully make up for pay cuts they took in 2003, when the company was near bankruptcy. Burdette declined to detail how much TWU will seek. The 2003 pay cuts averaged nearly 18 percent, and annual raises since then have been 1.5 percent.

Like members of the airline's other unions, the 25,000 American mechanics and other ground workers represented by TWU are still upset over stock-based bonuses paid to executives the past two years. Unions estimate the shares were worth about $250 million when issued. Union leaders say the payouts violated Chief Executive Gerard Arpey's promise to share the benefits if labor and management pulled together to fix the airline, whose parent, AMR Corp., lost more than $8 billion from 2001 through 2005. "There is a ton of anger out there over the way executives took money out of the company," Burchette said. "We've been doing the heavy lifting for this corporation. Now it's time to do the winning together."

American executives say they must control labor costs to offset rising jet fuel prices, but the union official wasn't sympathetic. "That affects us too," he said. "When the company pays more for jet fuel, our members are paying more for gasoline." He said it's management's job to handle high fuel prices without hurting employees. Burchette comments were a break from TWU's normally positive dealings with American.
Union leaders have spoken glowingly about how they cooperated with American to streamline maintenance operations, such as reducing the turnaround time for overhauls at a base in Tulsa, Okla., from 21 to 12 days. TWU says its members are doing 27 percent more work per employee than they did five years ago. American executives, eager to dispel the image of a company under siege from its unions, often played up their cooperation with TWU. The union's effort in Tulsa will help the company attract outside maintenance work and save jobs, they say.

Sue Gordon, a spokeswoman for the airline, said American officials believe they can reach a deal "that would create opportunities for TWU-represented employees to increase their earnings, as well as offering comprehensive and competitive benefits."
Gordon said the company wants to link higher wage rates to higher productivity. She also said American favors basing some compensation on employees meeting performance and productivity goals.
American's chief negotiator, Jeffrey Brundage, said recently that the company needs to lower its labor costs, which were the highest in the airline industry last year, according to MIT researchers.

TWU represents seven groups of workers, the biggest being baggage handlers and mechanics. The smallest group, fewer than 100 dispatchers, began negotiations with the airline last year, while the other six groups opened talks Wednesday. The ground workers' current contracts can be updated next May. Under federal law, labor contracts in the airline industry can be amended but they never expire -- a quirk that makes strikes less likely, but not impossible. TWU and American representatives talked this summer about avoiding full-fledged contract negotiations by striking a deal to extend their current contract. But the talks broke down in October. American expects to begin negotiations with flight attendants early next year.
 
Executive compensation at AA is over 700% higher than it was in 1992.

Apparently, management doesn't worry about fuel cost when writing their own checks. TC
 
I don't think Colon Blow will cut it. Now, with new improved Super Colon Blow, you would have to eat over 10 BILLION bowls of your cereal to equal just one of our bowls!

That and Quarry Cereal....still my 2 favorite skits of all time.
 
Originally Posted by On Your Six
....must control labor costs to offset rising jet fuel prices...

So when exactly do they start doling out the big raises to the labor groups when the cost of oil declines?
 
Executive compensation at AA is over 700% higher than it was in 1992.

Apparently, management doesn't worry about fuel cost when writing their own checks. TC

Weren't you the one saying AA's great credit rating could THWART a bid by Delta or others for United's Pacific routes if they offered to sell them? Riiiight, keep thinking that....JMO.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Weren't you the one saying AA's great credit rating could THWART a bid by Delta or others for United's Pacific routes if they offered to sell them? Riiiight, keep thinking that....JMO.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Considering how much TWA/Icahn's bidding drove up the price of PanAm's Europe routes for Delta back in the 90's, I'd have to say...uh, yeah.

Keep on ignoring history. It'll make you feel better...for awhile. ;) TC
 
Considering how much TWA/Icahn's bidding drove up the price of PanAm's Europe routes for Delta back in the 90's, I'd have to say...uh, yeah.

Keep on ignoring history. It'll make you feel better...for awhile. ;) TC

So we'll call your bluff, let you buy it for $billions, and we'll merge with NWA and watch you go BK as we compete against you anyway. Sounds fun. History doesn't always repeat itself. Yeah, if it makes you sleep at night, keep thinking that.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
So we'll call your bluff, let you buy it for $billions, and we'll merge with NWA and watch you go BK as we compete against you anyway. Sounds fun. History doesn't always repeat itself. Yeah, if it makes you sleep at night, keep thinking that.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Yeah, because merger work out so well, just ask any of the ex-Pan Am folks left on the real estate, how wel the National Merger went? Or any of the NWA folks that you plan on merging with how well the green list, red list and blue list worked out.

DAL's screwing of the Pan Am pilots is the EXACT model that the APA used when they stuck it to the TWA folks (tried and tested in court).

Yep, mergers are great (ask the USAir pilots how they feel). A DAL/NWA merger would be a walk in the park with both pilot groups singing Kum By Ya around the camp fire. I have one thing for you to consider, look up how long the Republic guys were fenced off the NWA equipment. You don't have enough flying time left in your career to ever see an NWA 747.

The recovery rate and return to profitability occurs exponentialy quicker with a direct asset purchase then it does when you try to merge, pilots, mechanics, ground personal, FA's, fleet types, yada yada.

I'd sooner pay the billions any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
 
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Yeah, because merger work out so well, just ask any of the ex-Pan Am folks left on the real estate, how wel the National Merger went? Or any of the NWA folks that you plan on merging with how well the green list, red list and blue list worked out.

DAL's screwing of the Pan Am pilots is the EXACT model that the APA used when they stuck it to the TWA folks (tried and tested in court).

Yep, mergers are great (ask the USAir pilots how they feel). A DAL/NWA merger would be a walk in the park with both pilot groups singing Kum By Ya around the camp fire. I have one thing for you to consider, look up how long the Republic guys were fenced off the NWA equipment. You don't have enough flying time left in your career to ever see an NWA 747.

The recovery rate and return to profitability occurs exponentialy quicker with a direct asset purchase then it does when you try to merge, pilots, mechanics, ground personal, FA's, fleet types, yada yada.

I'd sooner pay the billions any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

G4G5 I'm not so sure you have all your facts straight regarding the PAA/DAL acquisition. I do think that most PAA pilots got the short end of the stick, but I do not think it mirrors the AA/TWA debacle. I was very senior on the DAL list and twelve PAA guys with DOH well behind mine wound up senior to me. All of these were pilots out of the PAA Dirty Thirty list. No big deal but it was not an exact AA/TWA model. The guys who really got fk'd over were the guys on the A300 or the B747 who were not even invited to come over. That did amaze me. I worked for PAA back in the mid sixties for a year or so before I realized that being a navigator was not way to see the world but then that's another story.
 
G4G5, I agree that mergers suck. But as spooky said, big differences bewteen AA/TWA and DL/PAA. DL only picked up the Atlantic assets and the corresponding aircraft/pilots, and incorporated those pilots accordingly. Whereas AA bought ALL the TWA assets and promised "fair and equitable" - and then proceeded to craft an integration AFTER the passage of 9/11 that forced out mostly TWA pilots/FAs. While it comes as no surprise that the acquiring carrier's union protected its own employees (as expected), the company should not have promised "fair and equitable" with that knowledge.

They were both screw jobs, but I'd venture to say that TWA folks got a much bigger screw job.

73
 

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