JL Dumps Air Tran Stock

[CitationLover]

http://www.reuters.com/article/governmentFilingsNews/idUSN0827812820071108


NEW YORK, Nov 8 (Reuters) - The chairman of AirTran Holdings Inc (AAI.N: Quote, Profile, Research), parent of low-cost carrier AirTran Airways, revealed on Thursday that he has sold the rest of his shares in the company, according to a regulatory filing.
Joe Leonard, who stepped down from his chief executive role at the company last week and already revealed the sale of 130,000 shares this week, has sold his remaining 110,000 shares, according to a U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission filing.
Leonard, 64, sold the shares on Tuesday at prices ranging from $9.54 to $9.76, leaving him with zero shares, according to the filing.
The filing did not mention whether Leonard still held restricted stock or stock options from his chief executive tenure. According to a separate regulatory filing this week, Leonard had received a grant of restricted stock in October 2004. (Reporting by Emily Chasan; Editing by Tim Dobbyn)

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Figures that you would be the one to post this. I think you should worry about your own house.

 

[CitationLover]

Figures that you would be the one to post this. I think you should worry about your own house.

thats funny hearing an air tran pilot say that on this board considering all the "Timmy selling out and saving his job and money" comments.

where's the ex mesa love?

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

LAMA forever!

 

[c9skytrain]

If I had any airline stock now, I would dump it also. I see a buying opportunity in a few weeks, though.

 

[CitationLover]

If I had any airline stock now, I would dump it also. I see a buying opportunity in a few weeks, though.

most are near 52 wk lows......

 

[c9skytrain]

Then what are you wanking about? It sounds like anyone who does not dump their airline stock is a yutz.

 

[GOULET!]

Amen Citationlover. Where are all the Forklift Joe supporters now? What a scum bag. Airline stocks have taken a hit lately and will continue to do so but AirTran has been one of the worst stock performers of them all. Lost $5/share already in the past year.

 

[scarlet]

Yeah but come on, the stock market is now the laughing stock market. Google 700.00 yeah ok!!!A nd United at 56.00, and may be parking planes and still work 56 a share=NOT

 

[CitationLover]

Yeah but come on, the stock market is now the laughing stock market. Google 700.00 yeah ok!!!A nd United at 56.00, and may be parking planes and still work 56 a share=NOT

google has avowed to not split the stock to keep the price down, they are following buffett's model.

 

[DairyAir]

Not defending the man but he is in his sixties may have some health issues and probably wants to have some fun before he checks out. Why would he want to hold on to it anyway? BF made it clear that the stock is not really going to go anywhere for quite a while.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I'll say this for the man...he knows how to get maintenance done in a hurry!

 

[DougsRule]

Where did "Forklift Joe" come from... never heard that!

 

[CitationLover]

Where did "Forklift Joe" come from... never heard that!

JL was the director of mx at AA and approved of their engine changing operation on the dc10. douglas called for the engine to be removed from the pylon and JL and the rest of the airlines found out it was cheaper to simply remove the pylon with the engine connected to it (if memory serves me the pylon was simply held on with 3 bolts). AA would use a forklift to support the entire engine assembly (engine and pylon) and then disconnect the pylon. one day while in the middle of an engine change (#1 engine) in tulsa it became lunchtime and the crew left with the forklift supporting an assembly with some of the bolts missing. during the lunch break the forklift bled off hydraulic preessure and weakened the remaining connections for the assembly.

this aircraft eventually lost the entire #1 assembly on takeoff from 32R at ORD. AA was too cheap to buy two stick shakers and the CA's stick shaker was on the left generator which was on runway 32R. the FO, the flying pilot, flew a perfect V1 cut and climbed out at V2. when the engine assembly flew off it tore the hydraulic lines in the left wing and all pressure in that system bled down. unfortunately hydraulic pressure held the left slat assembly in place, but without pressure the air force shoved the slat assembly back into the left wing causing it to stall. the crew unaware of the impending stall could do nothing as the airplane's left wing stalled, the a/c banked to the left, and impacted the ground killing everyone on board and some people on the ground. it was the biggest aviation disaster in the continental united states.

during the various lawsuit trials it came to light AA had shredded lots of documents detailing all their mx procedures and the ntsb discovered all airlines were using this technique for engine changes on the dc10. they grounded the dc10 for a little while as the pylons were inspected. AA though actually made quite a bit of money on this accident through insurance payouts.

another sad part to this was the flying CA on 191 was scheduled to simply go home. the original CA for 191 asked this CA if he wanted to fly this flight (as I believed the new CA had family in LAX).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191

 

[fletch717]

SOOO let me try to understand the logic, Joe was running the forklift that day? Or was it Joe that told the crew to take lunch and leave the forklift in place? Or was it Joe who approved the proceedure? And Joe ordered the airplanes without stickshakers? Was joe loading bags too?

 

[FDJ2]

SOOO let me try to understand the logic, Joe was running the forklift that day? Or was it Joe that told the crew to take lunch and leave the forklift in place? Or was it Joe who approved the proceedure? And Joe ordered the airplanes without stickshakers? Was joe loading bags too?

It was the procedure.

"The findings of the investigation by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) were released on December 21, 1979.[1]. It revealed the probable cause to be attributable to damage to the left wing engine pylon that occurred during an earlier engine change at American Airlines's aircraft overhaul facility in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Evidence came from the flange, a critical part of the pylon assembly. It was revealed to be damaged before the crash, and investigators looked at the plane's maintenance history and found it was serviced eight weeks before the crash. The pylon was damaged due to an ill thought-out engine removal procedure. The original procedure called for removal of the engine prior to the removal of the engine pylon. To save time and costs, American Airlines, without the approval of McDonnell Douglas, had begun to use a faster procedure. They instructed their mechanics to remove the engine with the pylon all together as one unit. A large forklift was used to support the engine while it was being detached from the wing. This procedure was extremely difficult to execute successfully, due to difficulties with holding the engine assembly straight while it was being removed.
The procedure used for maintenance did not proceed smoothly. If the forklift was in the wrong position the engine would rock like a see-saw and jam against the pylon attachment points. The forklift operator was guided by hand and voice signals; the position had to be spot-on or could cause damage, but management was unaware of this. The modification to the aircraft involved in flight 191 didn't go smoothly; engineers started to disconnect the engine and pylon but changed shift halfway through; when work continued, the pylon was jammed on the wing and the forklift had to be re-positioned. This was important evidence because, in order to disconnect the pylon from the wing, a bolt had to be removed so that the flange could strike the clevis. The procedure used caused an indentation that damaged the clevis pin assembly and created an indentation in the housing of the self-aligning bearing, which in turn weakened the structure sufficiently to cause a small stress fracture. The fracture went unnoticed for several flights, getting worse with each flight that the plane had taken. During flight 191's takeoff, enough force was generated to finally cause the pylon to fail. At the point of rotation, the engine detached and was flipped over the top of the wing."

 

[CitationLover]

SOOO let me try to understand the logic, Joe was running the forklift that day? Or was it Joe that told the crew to take lunch and leave the forklift in place? Or was it Joe who approved the proceedure? And Joe ordered the airplanes without stickshakers? Was joe loading bags too?

look i just piss excellence ok? shake and bake!

he simply asked where the nickname came from and i told him. joe was the Mx jefe. that means the buck stops with him. he's the one who approved the cost saving measure at AA. valujet management got blamed for what they approved and looked the other way for. do you defend them for what they physically didn't do but were responsible for?

why do you love him and his hair piece?

 

[FlyAirtran]

Funny how Joe takes the heat for what everyone else was doing.. People need to do some research..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191

This method of engine-pylon removal was used to save man hours and was encouraged despite differences with the manufacturer's specifications on how the procedure was supposed to be performed. The accident investigation also concluded that the design of the pylon and adjacent surfaces made the parts difficult to service and prone to damage by maintenance crews. According to the History Channel[9], United Airlines and Continental Airlines were also using a one-step procedure. After the accident, cracks were found in the bulkheads of DC-10s in both fleets.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Funny how Joe takes the heat for what everyone else was doing.. People need to do some research..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191

This method of engine-pylon removal was used to save man hours and was encouraged despite differences with the manufacturer's specifications on how the procedure was supposed to be performed. The accident investigation also concluded that the design of the pylon and adjacent surfaces made the parts difficult to service and prone to damage by maintenance crews. According to the History Channel[9], United Airlines and Continental Airlines were also using a one-step procedure. After the accident, cracks were found in the bulkheads of DC-10s in both fleets.

Geez....what's wrong with you?? You want people to speak in terms or reality and facts, and not emotion?? Your expectations are sooooo high.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Joe Leonard was the boss. His department didn't do things right. By coincidence, some other airline's departments were also doing something un-right.

That doesn't diminish the FACT (pesky things, them!) that Joe's department cut a corner that led to the worst single-aircraft accident in US airline history.

I'm sure he's shed any personal accountability for that tragedy. Amoral scumbags are funny that way...

Let the record reflect there were plenty of other operators who were doing the procedure correctly, and managed to earn a profit at the time.

"Other people did it too!" is not a rational defense for complicity with a dangerous act.

 

[twepilot]

let it go. Just let it go.

RV

 

[GOULET!]

Sorry, we can't. FORKLIFT JOE! FORKLIFT JOE!

 

[CitationLover]

Funny how Joe takes the heat for what everyone else was doing.. People need to do some research..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191

This method of engine-pylon removal was used to save man hours and was encouraged despite differences with the manufacturer's specifications on how the procedure was supposed to be performed. The accident investigation also concluded that the design of the pylon and adjacent surfaces made the parts difficult to service and prone to damage by maintenance crews. According to the History Channel[9], United Airlines and Continental Airlines were also using a one-step procedure. After the accident, cracks were found in the bulkheads of DC-10s in both fleets.

did united or continental lose an engine on takeoff and crash? and for what it is worth i mentioned the fact that others did do it.

 

[mnboyev]

Continental....did the procedure first.... Get over it.....

Good luck Joe in retirement..... See Ya !! Hopefully Bobby will make nice with our labor groups !!! I can feel the luv starting to grow !!

 

[CitationLover]

Continental....did the procedure first.... Get over it.....

Good luck Joe in retirement..... See Ya !! Hopefully Bobby will make nice with our labor groups !!! I can feel the luv starting to grow !!

again for the 1000th time, JL was RESPONSIBLE for AA (not Continental, NWA, or any other DC10 operator) and he approved THEIR procedure (no matter who else was doing it). it was an AA DC10 that crashed, not Continental, NWA, etc.

get over your JL crush.

 

[Donsa320]

again for the 1000th time, JL was RESPONSIBLE for AA (not Continental, NWA, or any other DC10 operator) and he approved THEIR procedure (no matter who else was doing it). it was an AA DC10 that crashed, not Continental, NWA, etc.

get over your JL crush.

Just to keep the record straight; NWA had P&W engines on their DC-10's and never were involved in the "procedure" or the subsequent grounding.

~DC

 

[CitationLover]

Just to keep the record straight; NWA had P&W engines on their DC-10's and never were involved in the "procedure" or the subsequent grounding.

~DC

thank you for the clarification.

 

[Kharma Police]

again for the 1000th time, JL was RESPONSIBLE for AA (not Continental, NWA, or any other DC10 operator) and he approved THEIR procedure (no matter who else was doing it). it was an AA DC10 that crashed, not Continental, NWA, etc.

get over your JL crush.

You seem to be an expert on airlines maybe you could answer what really happened with the Midwest crash in MKE? Something about stress corrosion cracking in the right engine, V1 cut issues?

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1987/AAR8701.htm

 

[CitationLover]

What really happened with the Midwest crash in MKE? Something about stress corrosion cracking in the right engine?

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1987/AAR8701.htm

don't know. i do know the majority of most at MEH, including some at the FAA, believe the engine blades cut the cables and the crew had no flight control input and were simply along for the ride after the engine went. the company even backed the crew and has repeatedly tried to exonerate the crew postmortem. the engine shop was outsourced at the time as midwest was fairly young in life. certainly lesson learned.

we can talk about the outsourcing of maintenance and its catastrophic results all day as two crew members died at air midwest via the same fundamental problem......

what is your point? someone asked for the origin of "forklift" and after the explanation you comeback with this? are you a JL fan too? he apparently warrants you as diversification, sorry no more foreplay from forklift.

and as for your cheap attack on midwest (again i attack your management and you come back at our pilot group) as some "points" you're trying to make, shall we review the air tran dc-9 operating history in its infancy stage?

http://www.aviationaccidentlawnews-ntsb.com/html/safetyreports.html

....
AirTran Airways
AirTran Airways received an F rating for safety. Once under ValuJet the airline was rated by the FAA for being 13 times less safe than other lower cost U.S. airplanes. A high number of AirTran’s DC-9 jetliners have been involved in a large amount of serious aircraft accidents, leading their day to day safety operations to be in question. Since 1985 AirTran Airways has had 110 fatalities, 21 FAA incidents, 7 NTSB incidents, and 39 FAA violations/fines in 1997-2000.

.....
Midwest Express Airlines
Although Midwest Express Airlines had one major plane crash accident, the airlines have not had many other airline safety problems. Since 1985 Midwest Express Airlines has had 34 fatalities, 33 FAA incidents, 6 NTSB incidents, and 9 FAA violations/fines in 1997-2000.
...

 

[CitationLover]

kharma one other thing regarding YX105. the company MENTIONS and even DESCRIBES the accident in great detail and passes out their synopsis and the NTSB synopsis during Indoc for EVERY worker at MEH. hoeksema even mentions it in his little 10 minute speech. it is a terrible reminder of failure at an airline.

i somehow do not think valujet 592 is mentioned at indoc at air tran or by fernaro when speaking to new employees. if i am wrong on this (as i have not been to air tran indoc) then i apologize.