So where is all the movement...on the East

[trainer8]

Wasn't it because of the FAA not approving the Potomac certificate to operate as Mid-Atlantic so they just added it to mainline's?

I'm not sure of the chronology, but the Potomac certificate was legit. There were issues with the training integrity in late 2003. There are others who can post more accurately about that time, but Potomac/MDA was in trouble then. The LOA's negotiated originally intended MDA to be a WO subsidiary, with APL crewing the flight decks of the E170/190 fleet. Siegle moved MDA onto the Mainline Certificate. That set in motion a plethura of changes, one being that the pilots were placed on the US Airways Seniority List per the AAA CBA. When this was brought to the attention of the AAA leadership they denied it...all the way through the merger until the Embraer pilots hired outside counsel to secure their positions and contract rights. Then there was a slow, disgruntled, waffeling at times, recognition by the AAA MEC regarding those pilots. There are still little skirmishes over this issue.

 

[A350]

I can't comment on the exact reason why, I am sure it was partly $$$. But the E170's were on the AAA operating certificate. Same certificate, same union, same same.

A350

 

[JetMonkey]

You brought nothing. Zanzabar, bubba, accept it.

Without us you would've been attending the next air app convention. I'd still would've rather taken our chances without you.

 

[Joblu]

Hey Monkey you should change that quote to:

"I haven't been drinking officer. Ok I'll step out of the car." -CEO Doug Parker, USAirways.

Your quote is very accurate though.

Thanks for your reply trainer.

 

[Crzipilot]

the moving of the 170's, to the AAA cert, kissing potomac goodbye, also resulted in what many see as an illegal, or problematic recall to mainline, but nobody wants to talk about that....

 

[Crzipilot]

I also love the analogy, that you gave us life, so you should take our attrition???? The first post stated we lost 58 a/c or something like that, with a small amount of block time added back, but still upgraded quite a few. Meanwhile the west side has stagnated. If the west was such a rosy picture, wouldn't your tremendous growth and such have continued????

Or could it be, unfortunately our route networks somewhat compliment each other, which stagnated you, and ripped 58 airframes from us, and really hasn't been growth on the east (which there hasn't, total positions have continued to go down) but the retirements are why you see the upgrades......but you want those........

 

[Fast43]

What WE brought to the table (attrition) .

Whoa there nellie.....


The attrition that you were about to enjoy in liquidation is not transferable to anyones table in real life.

The merger helped both of us. Per the Arbitrator it helped you guys more. So why do you east guys think you should get all the benefits??

Put the crack pipe down and give a straight answer.

 

[trainer8]

the moving of the 170's, to the AAA cert, kissing potomac goodbye, also resulted in what many see as an illegal, or problematic recall to mainline, but nobody wants to talk about that....

It didn't have to be if it was handled correctly by the MEC in the first place. Their denial of MDA as part of U in early 2004 really was a screw up. The dynamics of their negotiations with U management and their willingness to vote Eagle pay rates for MDA "a priori" without required membership ratification set up the "problematic recall." Fact is, the APL were told MDA was not U. They were lied to. I'm told many of them have filed their own DFR suit. ALPA must have more than two hands to juggle all theses DFR suits.

 

[Crzipilot]

Yup, and now even more to the insult, it seems MDA guys have been given longevity credit for pay etc, for the time spent at MDA, meanwhile, others at J4J carriers which were either not offered MDA, or frozen and not able to go, are not. Response from ALPA, zip, sorry, your not part of the special groups, can't imagine why anyone wants ALPA gone.


And Fast 43, the same can be said of your "future" deliveries, and movement. Was something in the future, you can't bring to the table.....so the stagnation is what you have....

 

[trainer8]

Yup, and now even more to the insult, it seems MDA guys have been given longevity credit for pay etc, for the time spent at MDA, meanwhile, others at J4J carriers which were either not offered MDA, or frozen and not able to go, are not. Response from ALPA, zip, sorry, your not part of the special groups, can't imagine why anyone wants ALPA gone.

Your forgot stock options...sorry:smash:. I'm there, I undrstand.

Furloughed APL (prior to MDA) received their original longevity and MDA LOS. The CEL/APL have started at year 1 pay w/no LOS credit for MDA. Grievance filed May 07.

 

[Crzipilot]

Ya Grievance filed for those, but what about the guys at Mesa, Transtates, CHQ, PSA???? I think they were told to pound sand on all accounts, including the stock options the CEL guys got....

 

[trainer8]

Ya Grievance filed for those, but what about the guys at Mesa, Transtates, CHQ, PSA???? I think they were told to pound sand on all accounts, including the stock options the CEL guys got....

That was the deception of the AAA MEC. They originally were told MDA wasn't U and so they didn't bid to the E170. You can't transfer between J4J carriers unless you quit at one carrier. So, why come over to a WO subsidiary and get paid regional rates to fly a mainline aircraft?

And now you see the schizophrenic mentality of ALPA. "How can those pilots (at MDA...who ARE they?"), who are not US Airways Pilots receive stock pay outs and stock options? Oh...they were?

One other item that is very important to note. The MDA guys organized very effectively, became unified in their purpose. The results show that unity.

 

[Fast43]

And Fast 43, the same can be said of your "future" deliveries, and movement. Was something in the future, you can't bring to the table.....so the stagnation is what you have....

Clearly then the current situation is very one sided as you just alluded to above....

 

[Crzipilot]

No don't think so very well, Uhmmm...you said we couldn't bring our attrition, so how can you bring your growth???


Lottery ticket still burning a hole?

 

[Fast43]

No don't think so very well, Uhmmm...you said we couldn't bring our attrition, so how can you bring your growth???


Lottery ticket still burning a hole?

Thats the point I was making, you in fact are getting your attrition and have been for 2.5 years. Out west not so much.

Latest info from the company shows that in 2008 you have 77 ACTIVE Capt positions attriting. We have 26 ACTIVE Capt positions attriting. Making a net of 51 Capt positions more available on your side.

So if all 2500+ of you are content with LOA 93 wages for the sake of 51 upgrades. Go ahead knock yourself out............after all, you all are the super experienced smart ones right???