RJDC/ALPA settle...

[regionaltard]

PCL128 has done more for the Air Line Pilot profession than 90%.

If you mean carrying the standard of the "Nah, baby you're not fat, I love you just the way you are" faction in ALPA I beg to differ.

Yeah... you tell us how the whole scope thing should have gone down... how the major airline pilots shoulda coulda woulda...

The camel got his nose under the turboprop tent. Not the jets.

When management says we are going to hire a vendor to fly 19 seat TP's.... HOW were the major guys going to say... We will fly those TPs'. As whose employer? mainline? The commuters?

You're right. The capabilities of 19 passenger turboprops and mainline jets are remarkably similar, aren't they?

WE pissed it away? I thought this was a PCL 128 smackdown....

Prolly because pretty much the only thing the anti-RJDC types have in response to the issues is to impugn the motives of the people who disagree with them. It's a Pavlovian thing. You see a disagreement and automatically start looking for a personal attack. Any rational discussion of the RJDC issue would inevitably lead to the conclusion that PCL is an idiot. There's a not-so-subtle difference there.

 

[ironspud]

For the first time in your life Ironspud, you have been NAILED. Enjoy that 18 day trip. Incheon isn't that bad, right?

Bye Bye--General Lee

Ahhhh. You really are a co-pilot. "Gear Up" general.

 

[regionaltard]

Oh, please TARD, enlighten us on your master plan....

Probably doesn't have you interviewing any more for your 777 job you want does it??

I wouldn't take a 777 job if it came with a years' supply of Swedish call girls. Would I like to take one around the patch a few times? You betcha. That's what is really funny about the whole "Fins just wants my job without earning it" argument that's so popular whenever the RJDC comes up. If that's what people had wanted from their careers, that's probably what they would have done.

I hope that this doesn't come as a serious blow to the egos of the kids with the "good jobs" but this thing that we do isn't rocket science. Any suggestion that the guy flying a 2500 mile final to an ILS has something special that the guy wrestling an RJ in and out of Missoula 3 times a day lacks is patently absurd. Airline hiring is a crapshoot once you get beyond those obviously not qualified, as much as those who "make the grade" would like to, or perhaps need to, believe otherwise. Even some of the "obviously not's" make it through the cracks. I know for a fact that Delta hired the worst pilot to ever wedge herself through a cockpit door-anyone who's been there more than 7-8 years knows exactly whom I'm speaking of. Think they were having a better day when they hired you? Are you sure?

It's probably never occurred to the chosen ones that the purpose of psych evals and the rest of the "process" might have been to simply stack the deck with the kind of folks who lack the personality traits of the Giants who built this profession. Look at the wreckage around you-heck, look in your checkbook. The evidence is certainly there.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Whatever that means? It's called "whoreing yourself". This is someone even beneath the SCAB level on the labor scale. On a recent Skybus thread, Mr skywhor..uh..PCL..himself stated that folks like Skybus pilots should be "spit on". He wants to "spit on" pilots just because they are getting paid money for their labor. He instead paid the airline a salary so he could be a "pretend co-pilot" to pad his logbook. Did you understand that? HE PAID THE AIRLINE!! FOR A FRIGGIN JOB!! Talk about a scourge within your midst! Sheesh.ukeSee post on 10/19/2007 at 02:03 #117 on Skybus)

Ironspuddie-

Please point to some type of document or collective action that says going to GIA is beneath scab level?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If you mean carrying the standard of the "Nah, baby you're not fat, I love you just the way you are" faction in ALPA I beg to differ.

I am sure you beg allot...

You're right. The capabilities of 19 passenger turboprops and mainline jets are remarkably similar, aren't they?

Please explain in detail the historical scope issue with the introduction of turboprops and the use of commuters.

Prolly because pretty much the only thing the anti-RJDC types have in response to the issues is to impugn the motives of the people who disagree with them. It's a Pavlovian thing. You see a disagreement and automatically start looking for a personal attack. Any rational discussion of the RJDC issue would inevitably lead to the conclusion that PCL is an idiot. There's a not-so-subtle difference there.

I am embarrassed to be debating with someone that uses "Prolly".

The RJDC has been debated completely on this board.... did you just come up with this broad brush demissal?

Please provide a detailed explanation of the merits of the RJDC.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The RJDC is not trying to put the genie in the bottle, they are trying to force the door completely open door and eliminate scope.

No they are not. Their agreement does not eliminate scope in any way.

You always write that the RJDC wanted to do away with scope - you are mistaken. Even Rez realizes the RJDC was trying to carve out some scope for itself.

Were pilots at ASA, or Comair, in any way responsible for selling out Delta's flying? Did any of them vote for a Delta PWA? Where their Reps seated at the table?

The Delta MEC and Delta pilots negotiated and ratified Delta's contracts. Bankruptcy and economic issues wedged your MEC between a rock and a hard place, but do not blame the RJ drivers - they were not involved.

Would you consider it ironic that my reason for leaving my job in the top third of ASA's seniority list was the lack of scope? I got tired of getting displaced and losing my schedule as our airplanes were transferred to non union pilots. Comair is a smaller airline than it was when this battle began. CVG is full of RJ's, half of them are not Comair's.

You will not find anyone who understands better the need for scope better than those who pushed the RJDC effort.

I hope of one Delta's top priorities in their contract 2010 is making their scope stronger. To be successful in getting the flying back on the Delta property bridges to other ALPA members have to be built.

 

[regionaltard]

I am embarrassed to be debating with someone that uses "Prolly".

I'll spare you further embarrassment. The fact that you wish to continue to debate a subject that by your own admission has already been discussed ad nauseam speaks to needs that I'm just not prepared to meet. It's OK with me if we disagree, and if you can come up with something more interesting than the screed that's your stock in trade the door's always open.

I wouldn't mind knowing what an anotone is though-I'm guessing that it's like a monotone with the exception that the speaker is talking out of his @ss.

 

[~~~^~~~]

nevermind

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Did I spell that incorrectly? Can you figure it out regardless?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

No they are not. Their agreement does not eliminate scope in any way.

You always write that the RJDC wanted to do away with scope - you are mistaken. Even Rez realizes the RJDC was trying to carve out some scope for itself.

Were pilots at ASA, or Comair, in any way responsible for selling out Delta's flying? Did any of them vote for a Delta PWA? Where their Reps seated at the table?

The Delta MEC and Delta pilots negotiated and ratified Delta's contracts. Bankruptcy and economic issues wedged your MEC between a rock and a hard place, but do not blame the RJ drivers - they were not involved.

Would you consider it ironic that my reason for leaving my job in the top third of ASA's seniority list was the lack of scope? I got tired of getting displaced and losing my schedule as our airplanes were transferred to non union pilots. Comair is a smaller airline than it was when this battle began. CVG is full of RJ's, half of them are not Comair's.

You will not find anyone who understands better the need for scope better than those who pushed the RJDC effort.

I hope of one Delta's top priorities in their contract 2010 is making their scope stronger. To be successful in getting the flying back on the Delta property bridges to other ALPA members have to be built.

When are you getting off probation Fins???

You gonna show your true colors then or is it better on this side of the fence???

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I know for a fact that Delta hired the worst pilot to ever wedge herself through a cockpit door-anyone who's been there more than 7-8 years knows exactly whom I'm speaking of. Think they were having a better day when they hired you? Are you sure?

I was starting to listen to your reasoning Tard, but then it dawned on me.....The difference between that same girl and you is about 20-50K a year!!! No $hit....

Let me guess, it's getting hard on you and your family when people ask if you ever wanted to fly for a big airline like Delta or American?? Problem solved for you, I'm sure even your kids at school tell their friends Daddy is a Big Jet pilot with (Brand X) mainline......

Nobody played the "I'm better than you" card until you brought it up. Continue trolling around in your RJ, babysitting the next Academy grad, endowing him/her on your vast experience, and indulging them with all of your stories like "back in the day of the Brazilia...." all the while wondering if the kid next to you will get a job quicker than you will because they have a degree or no DUI's ......

It's tough being you, but you stand up everyday, look in the mirror and put on your wings and mount that monster 70 seater and show the world who's boss, and for that my hat is off to you.....you are truly an inspiration!!!

 

[~~~^~~~]

..... is it better on this side of the fence???

... you hit on a reason this case settled, most of RJDC's supporters went to work for other airlines as soon as the hiring started.

 

[regionaltard]

I was starting to listen to your reasoning Tard,

That'd be great.

 

[michael707767]

No they are not. Their agreement does not eliminate scope in any way.

You always write that the RJDC wanted to do away with scope - you are mistaken. Even Rez realizes the RJDC was trying to carve out some scope for itself.

Were pilots at ASA, or Comair, in any way responsible for selling out Delta's flying? Did any of them vote for a Delta PWA? Where their Reps seated at the table?

The Delta MEC and Delta pilots negotiated and ratified Delta's contracts. Bankruptcy and economic issues wedged your MEC between a rock and a hard place, but do not blame the RJ drivers - they were not involved.

Would you consider it ironic that my reason for leaving my job in the top third of ASA's seniority list was the lack of scope? I got tired of getting displaced and losing my schedule as our airplanes were transferred to non union pilots. Comair is a smaller airline than it was when this battle began. CVG is full of RJ's, half of them are not Comair's.

I didn't say this agreement eliminates scope. Far from it. I do stand by what I have said though. The RJDC wanted to eliminate scope in hopes of getting bigger jets. Nothing you can say will ever convince me otherwise, so we will have to agree to disagree.

No, CMR and ASA were not responsible for selling out Delta's flying. We did that to ourselves. And frankly, once we give away an aircraft, I don't care who flies it. So if CMR or ASA wants to get scope saying they will fly all the 70 seaters, or something like that, more power to you.

The problem there goes back to something I say about our own scope. Once you give away an aircraft, you will never get it back. With ASA and CMR, since you have never had scope on an aircraft, it's too late to get it now. I know there have been small changes giving you some semblance of scope, but nothing which substantially changes what Delta can or will do with DCI flying.

It will always be hard to get scope when you work for an airline which is really not an airline. ASA, CMR, Skywest, etc, none are really airlines IMHO (Xjet the exception). They are contractors who provide a service. And just like the contractors who clean the airplanes or fuel the jets, when they can be replaced by someone who does it better or cheaper, they will be.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

... you hit on a reason this case settled, most of RJDC's supporters went to work for other airlines as soon as the hiring started.

Which goes to show that the RJDC was a reactionary, knee-jerk action based on career expectations gone south due to the economic downturn exacerbated by 9-11. Not ALPA.

Liken it to a clique of Katrina victims who want to sue the gov't cause they think someone is getting a better deal after the sotrm hit.... even though that someone else took the time to build a stronger house and buy a generator before hand...

RJDC= whiners, cry babies, divisive & regressive.

How much did the RJDC circus cost ALPA? In other words HOW much of my dues money did it cost?


How much value was realized?