Astar/ABX

[scarface]

won't have any jobs to jumpseat into will we?(rest of post.)

 

[shooter]

All you girls (both sides) need to step back and not get your panties in a bunch. We, as in both groups, will never agree nor will either side convince the other that they are right. Let the courts decide it and be civilized to each other. This whole mess sucks for both sides.

Relax.

I have to agree with that. ABX does not like what Astar is doing to DHL because it has a direct impact on their company and possible future. Astar does not like that ABX has given a cold shoulder to Astar as a result. Unless Astar changes their grievance to exclude ABX, which happens to be the only airline listed in the grievance, or drop it all together ABX will not be happy. Unless Astar takes all of the ABX work away by winning the grievance they will not be........hey, wait a minute.

nevermind, continue as you see fit.

 

[flyinboxes]

If you don't want our jumpseats let us know. I haven't, and won't ride ASTAR but I've given rides to many an ASTAR pilot. I'll continue to do so but we don't respond well to threats. But then if you have your way we won

Do we smell bad or something?

 

[JohnnyPilot]

Both groups need to get their sh#$ together!

If you guys keep fighting each other you will both (groups) go down in flames.

Grow up! Get your sh#4 together and fight the real enemy; your respective mgt. teams and DHL!

Come on, are both groups stupid enough to believe that mgt and DHL are not loving every minute of this disagreement.

Instead of flaming each other and threatening jumpseats, Earl (and I do respect the fact that you sign your name to your posts) and the ABX guy need to sit down, like men and leaders and discuss this thing and work something out.

Together you both have mgt and DHL by the balls and all you need to do is squeeze instead of repeatedly kicking each other.

Can you both get together?

Show the world that pilots are smart!

 

[LarryinTN]

threaten to take it away cause they don't like my latest grievance.

If any of our crews denies you a jumpseat PM one of us and we'll address it on our end.

Astar crews have always been great to me when I've ridden on your airplanes.

 

[AV8OR]

Thanks LJ. The only place I've ever heard anyone bring the JS into the discussion has been on this board, and I think it's minority.

 

[Cargoav8or]

I have to agree with that. ABX does not like what Astar is doing to DHL because it has a direct impact on their company and possible future. Astar does not like that ABX has given a cold shoulder to Astar as a result. Unless Astar changes their grievance to exclude ABX, which happens to be the only airline listed in the grievance, or drop it all together ABX will not be happy. Unless Astar takes all of the ABX work away by winning the grievance they will not be........hey, wait a minute.

nevermind, continue as you see fit.

No wonder they call it dickspatch.

 

[shooter]

No wonder they call it dickspatch.

ewwwww, good one. did you think of that all by yourself?

 

[Cargoav8or]

ewwwww, good one. did you think of that all by yourself?

Sure did. Took about much thought as your response.

 

[shooter]

Sure did. Took about much thought as your response.

you seem to lack respect for others in the industry. I am willing to help with that. I am waiting for an answer.

 

[Box-Hauler]

Like Johnny said. Stop fighting like a bunch of sorority girls. Lets get an agreement on a combined seniority list. Get an agreement about carrying opposing freight and honoring strikes and take it to all 3 management teams. Make it one pilot group paid by 2 different companies. Yes it can be done but it would require both unions to give up some control (god forbid they give up some of their kingdoms to do something for the betterment of the groups). Sooner than later they (DHL) will realize there will be a single airline flying all of DHL boxes in the U.S. It will happen, just like age 65. ALPA was against it until they realized it was a futile fight, now they are on board trying to shape the law. Take that lesson and apply it to DHL. Get on board and make the changes happen that will better the pilots as a whole.

 

[Cargoav8or]

you seem to lack respect for others in the industry. I am willing to help with that. I am waiting for an answer.

Only the ones who continually flame.

 

[shooter]

Only the ones who continually flame.

I try not to flame. I only try to say what you guys are not saying. I listened to your argument and agree that if the shoe were on the other foot, ABX pilots may do the same as Astar. But thats not where we are at, are we? We have your arrogant flamers not representing the whole case. So when I post I may sound harsh when I am just saying an alternate view.

I think many have posted here that a common seniority list should be created between Astar and ABX. A great idea. Never gonna happen until the ruling comes and only if that ruling is against Astar ALPA. To do so now would mean you, Astar ALPA, would pull the grievance that lists ABX as a specific airline to stop flying DHL freight. I think the two airlines could work great together. If the DHL freight were to remain as it is, almost 50/50, the pessimist says they will pit the groups against one another, the optimist says both groups will work together like one big happy family, the realist says we need to respect each other for who we are and protect this turf while working toward contracts off each other. You know, like the Delta/United/American contracts to top each other for the new "industry leading" contract.

But as I said, it will never happen unless Astar loses it's case. If you win, we will see just how you value ABX.

So don't say I'm flaming. I'm stating facts.

 

[steamgauge]

BTW, you did not answer my question regarding DOB vs DOH.

DOB is necessary for calculations of retirements, earning power, captain years, etc. for a complete and realistic picture of list integration and gain or loss of opportunity under different scenarios.

As you can see from Atlas/Polar and USA/AWE, you could get better than DOH or worse than DOH from an arbitrator.

I'm sure you understand that drawing a DOH line in the sand could actually hurt you depending upon which way the ABX ball bounces next year.

Earl


PS I hate this editor.

 

[Jurasicpilot]

If everyone had an avitar like mine there would be no more problems.

 

[nitefr8dog]

DOB is necessary for calculations of retirements, earning power, captain years, etc. for a complete and realistic picture of list integration and gain or loss of opportunity under different scenarios.

As you can see from Atlas/Polar and USA/AWE, you could get better than DOH or worse than DOH from an arbitrator.

I'm sure you understand that drawing a DOH line in the sand could actually hurt you depending upon which way the ABX ball bounces next year.

Earl


PS I hate this editor.

Now that the offer is not on the table,does it really matter?

 

[flyinboxes]

Yes it matters, $500,000,000 doesn't just vanish with an email saying no thanks. The real pressure is now coming from the inside.

 

[nitefr8dog]

Yes it matters, $500,000,000 doesn't just vanish with an email saying no thanks. The real pressure is now coming from the inside.

And of course you know this for a fact,or could it be just a gut feeling?

 

[learjockey1]

And of course you know this for a fact,or could it be just a gut feeling?

I believe the internal pressure he is referring to is coming from major shareholders.....

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/10/01/daily19.html?ana=from_rss

 

[shooter]

I believe the internal pressure he is referring to is coming from major shareholders.....

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/10/01/daily19.html?ana=from_rss

Red Mountain Capital is a corporate raider. The modern day Carl Icahn. That is the reason they wanted a say in the day to day operations and a seat on the board about a year ago.

Make no mistake that if Red Mountain sees that aluminum is worth more than the share price, they would put every worker on the street and start melting aluminum. They are the reason ABX and other corps have poison pills.

Do not think the ABX BOD does not know this. Not to say the place is not able to be bought, just that Red Mountain is only like a 6% shareholder, only 1 shareholder and NOT the majority shareholder.