Ugly and Unexpected Attrition at Horizon

[ReverseSensing]

70 new-hires, now through Spring 08 to deal with the just-discovered (by management) fact that "the industry is recovering and it appears the hiring slump of post 2001 is definitely over."

Ya think?

 

[pilotyip]

Pay or loose'em

June of 2007 hiring boom is here, as a result of the growing world wide pilot shortage. Predicted here in Sept of 2003. That is why we start our a DA-20 F/O's at $35K with $1.83/hr per-diem, keeps our classes full.

 

[ReverseSensing]

June of 2007 hiring boom is here, as a result of the growing world wide pilot shortage. Predicted here in Sept of 2003. That is why we start our a DA-20 F/O's at $35K with $1.83/hr per-diem, keeps our classes full.

I should have considered the law of unintended consequences: Any mention of attrition or pilot shortages and pilotyip will come out of nowhere to swoop in and flesh out your thread.

High attrition would seem like great news, except that half the attrition is from the bottom third of the seniority list. Doesn't really bring the upgrade time to below half a damn decade (not that I personally care that much).

 

[DrewBlows]

I should have considered the law of unintended consequences: Any mention of attrition or pilot shortages and pilotyip will come out of nowhere to swoop in and flesh out your thread.

You have to give him credit though. He's the first person in the history of flightinfo to ever predict anything correctly. You giving stock tips Yip?

 

[sqwkvfr]

You have to give him credit though. He's the first person in the history of flightinfo to ever predict anything correctly. You giving stock tips Yip?

I agree...the man has a right to toot his horn....he was bang on.

 

[ualdriver]

What good is a "pilot shortage" if entry level flying positions (for the most part) still pay only around $20,000 per year at the regionals? What good is this "pilot shortage" if airlines like Skybus, Virgin, etc., can adequately staff their narrowbody operations with substandard wages?

I'll believe there is a serious pilot shortage when the following happen:

1) Any narrowbody operation flying modern, $30M narrowbody jets find it absolutely impossible to staff their airline unless they offer a very competitive wage (hint: 60 or 90 bucks an hour for an A320/A319 Captain is not anything resembling competitive).

2) Regional airlines are parking RJ's en masse because they can find no one willing to work for their poverty level entry wages. Major airlines are forced to renegotiate their contracts with their respective regional carriers to account for the increased costs of paying their professional pilots professional wages or risk losing large amounts of feed.

3) Service to small communities is drastically reduced because there's no one to fly the planes that normally services these small cities. Stories such as these make front page of the USA Today and spur Congressional attention.

4) Entry level wages at just about any job that would be considered "entry level" for a pilot pays enough to service the reasonable cost of the debt one incurs choosing a professional pilot career.

Until the above happens, it matters not one bit if there is a "pilot shortage" or not. What does it matter if one exists if pilots cannot enjoy the fruits of being on the "good side" of the pilot supply and demand equation for once?

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

UAL driver,

I have always thought the indication of a pilot shortage, I start getting postcards in the mail from airlines ASKING me to attend class or interviews.
They all have the ATP database, and if I can get these cards from competitive AMEs, then if airlines are truly short, they will start to arrive from other airlines.

 

[Heavy Set]

June of 2007 hiring boom is here, as a result of the growing world wide pilot shortage. Predicted here in Sept of 2003. That is why we start our a DA-20 F/O's at $35K with $1.83/hr per-diem, keeps our classes full.

Who wants to fly old Falcon 20s out of Detoilet (YIP) at all hours of the night to garden spots like TOL, ELP, and Juarez? Sign me up!

 

[CFI2766]

Who wants to fly old Falcon 20s out of Detoilet (YIP) at all hours of the night to garden spots like TOL, ELP, and Juarez? Sign me up!

WHoa. KELP is awesome. Ever been to Griggs Mexican Restaurant? They've got an autographed picture of the shuttle Columbia from the original crew of Young and Crippen. Space history, man.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

We're getting there on the pilot shortage.

Mesa is starting a deal where they pay you back your training costs (PPL/Comm/Inst) if you stay a certain length of time. Ab-initio is next.

Lots of flights ARE being cancelled, and the majors are losing feed PAX in their hubs.

USAJet RARELY flies to either TOL or Juarez, and we never stay overnight there. Sometimes we're overnight in ELP. Sometimes we're also overnight in OAK, LAX, PDX, PHX, MCI, etc., etc. We don't stay in Mexico unless something breaks or you're flying a vacation trip-then we might stay in Cabo or the Bahamas for a week.

cliff
ABQ

 

[turbinesurgeon]

70 new-hires, now through Spring 08 to deal with the just-discovered (by management) fact that "the industry is recovering and it appears the hiring slump of post 2001 is definitely over."

Ya think?

But a lot of the attrition is going to other regionals. Not the majors like LH says. I wonder why? Aren't we the best regional of 2006?

 

[ReverseSensing]

But a lot of the attrition is going to other regionals. Not the majors like LH says. I wonder why? Aren't we the best regional of 2006?

2007 ATW Regional of the Year.

Yeah, whatever....

That's akin to being the 2007 Donkey Kong Gamer of the Year.

 

[Wankel7]

Who wants to fly old Falcon 20s out of Detoilet (YIP) at all hours of the night to garden spots like TOL, ELP, and Juarez? Sign me up!

I dunno man...flying a Falcon 20 was some of the most fun I have had in an airplane...good times

 

[pilotyip]

Have to wait

Who wants to fly old Falcon 20s out of Detoilet (YIP) at all hours of the night to garden spots like TOL, ELP, and Juarez? Sign me up!

Lots of pilot want to work here, I have a drawer full of poolies just waiting for the call. You will just have to wait in line like everyone else. Go to js.firm or 350 to post a resume and we will try to get you on the interview schedule before Thanksgiving. That is about the time when our next interview schedule has an opening. Fine airline jobs, like good wine are not served before thier time.

 

[DashTrash400]

2007 ATW Regional of the Year.

Yeah, whatever....

That's akin to being the 2007 Donkey Kong Gamer of the Year.

Heh...in 2005, freakin' Mesa was the ATW Regional Airline of the Year. :nuts:

I'm one of the people who bailed from Horizon over the last month...I was there 3.5 years and I was a tad over halfway to upgrade. I think it's an indication of QX management's insularity that the attrition caught them off guard. They believe enough of their own press that they can't imagine why anybody would go work anywhere else...

 

[Capi_Cafre']

70 new-hires, now through Spring 08 to deal with the just-discovered (by management) fact that "the industry is recovering and it appears the hiring slump of post 2001 is definitely over."

Ya think?

Can the puppy farms churn 'em out that quickly? Sounds like anyone with any combination of experience and brains would be looking elsewhere.

 

[olympus593]

Lots of pilot want to work here, I have a drawer full of poolies just waiting for the call. You will just have to wait in line like everyone else. Go to js.firm or 350 to post a resume and we will try to get you on the interview schedule before Thanksgiving. That is about the time when our next interview schedule has an opening. Fine airline jobs, like good wine are not served before thier time.

35K on cal 24/7 i'm so exited...D-I-P-S-H-I-T

 

[propsarebest]

Heh...in 2005, freakin' Mesa was the ATW Regional Airline of the Year. :nuts:

I'm one of the people who bailed from Horizon over the last month...I was there 3.5 years and I was a tad over halfway to upgrade. I think it's an indication of QX management's insularity that the attrition caught them off guard. They believe enough of their own press that they can't imagine why anybody would go work anywhere else...

That has been QX's "problem" for a long time now- they bury their head in the sand and then get hit by a truck. Sad.

 

[I Hate Freight]

Pilot Shortage My Azz!

There is only a shortage of pilots willing to work for crap wages. The well-paying outfits are having NO trouble attracting well-qualified applicants. None.

Nobody is parking airplanes or cutting service for lack of crews. The regionals are certainly feeling the pressure though.

 

[pilotyip]

Only to start

35K on cal 24/7 i'm so exited...D-I-P-S-H-I-T

35K only to start. Most are up to $50-$60 range after a couple years. Remember this is a entry level job where you get the skills to move onto a carer position. You to pay your dues someplace, this is only one of the many options. This is where you get the skills to go from CFI to Netjets, AirTran, etc as many of our low time starting pilots have done We have many pilots who are not going anywhere because they actually like the lifestyle. Few pilots spend more time at home than than a USA pilot who lives to the YIP area. So control your excitment. I will PM you an email address so you can start your on-line application.

 

[pilotyip]

There is only a shortage of pilots willing to work for crap wages. The well-paying outfits are having NO trouble attracting well-qualified applicants. None.

Nobody is parking airplanes or cutting service for lack of crews. The regionals are certainly feeling the pressure though.

What is a crap wage, I looked my Payroll Management book and could not find the definition?

 

[DGdaPilot]

Nobody is parking airplanes or cutting service for lack of crews. The regionals are certainly feeling the pressure though.

Yes we are. Eagle is starting to park the Saab fleet. They just unlocked the training freeze on prop newhires too so they can go to the jet if they want (read: more profitable flying for AMR).

 

[DrewBlows]

35K only to start. Most are up to $50-$60 range after a couple years. Remember this is a entry level job where you get the skills to move onto a carer position. You to pay your dues someplace, this is only one of the many options. This is where you get the skills to go from CFI to Netjets, AirTran, etc as many of our low time starting pilots have done We have many pilots who are not going anywhere because they actually like the lifestyle. Few pilots spend more time at home than than a USA pilot who lives to the YIP area. So control your excitment. I will PM you an email address so you can start your on-line application.

Hey Yip, what are the current minimums at USAJet? What kind of experience do most new hires have? Are people starting at Pinnicle or Mesaba and coming over? The other way around? Are you hiring mostly CFIs?

 

[Metro752]

USA Jet, 1 Hour Call Out!

 

[ReverseSensing]

Sounds like anyone with any combination of experience and brains would be looking elsewhere.

I won't share verbatim what QX's chief pilot recently wrote a skeptical co-worker, but I'll paraphrase:

- More people are coming to QX from other regionals than the other way around.

- We have it so good here at QX compared to other regionals, it's no contest.

- We'd hire a lot more UND grads if other regionals weren't taking them with less time.

- Quit your bitchin' and pick up some green time. (Okay, he didn't actually say that, but he was thinking it, I'm sure.)

- We're doing a fantastic job in management at QX, and we know this because managers at other regionals tell us so.

In general, our leaders are offering typical management pablum: So insulated from the life of a line pilot, they can't even detect when they've started to sound silly.

 

[regionaltard]

- We'd hire a lot more UND grads if other regionals weren't taking them with less time.

Like Johnnie Cochran once said: "If the classes will not fill, the minimums will go lower still." "Regional Pilot" will be a class at UND before this is all over.

 

[pilotyip]

don't jump the gun,

 

[NEDude]

hint: 60 or 90 bucks an hour for an A320/A319 Captain is not anything resembling competitive

60 an hour for a captain on an A320? I make almost that much as a first year F/O on the 'bus.

That has been QX's "problem" for a long time now- they bury their head in the sand and then get hit by a truck. Sad.

QX has a lot of company in that regard.

In general, our leaders are offering typical management pablum: So insulated from the life of a line pilot, they can't even detect when they've started to sound silly.

Perfectly put. May I use that quote?

 

[pilotyip]

whoops wrong button[

 

[pilotyip]

answers?

I won't share verbatim what QX's chief pilot recently wrote a skeptical co-worker, but I'll paraphrase:

- More people are coming to QX from other regionals than the other way around.

- We have it so good here at QX compared to other regionals, it's no contest.

- We'd hire a lot more UND grads if other regionals weren't taking them with less time.

- Quit your bitchin' and pick up some green time. (Okay, he didn't actually say that, but he was thinking it, I'm sure.)

- We're doing a fantastic job in management at QX, and we know this because managers at other regionals tell us so.

In general, our leaders are offering typical management pablum: So insulated from the life of a line pilot, they can't even detect when they've started to sound silly.

If you have the answers, why are you not stepping into manamgent to make the place better? Anyone can identify problems, but few poeple have solutions.