Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

For Those About to Vote/Not Vote ALPA At SkyWest...

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Joe, you suck!


Another intelligent response from the ALPA cheerleading section.....

What is ALPA's plan to stop the whipsaw between ASA and Skywest pilots? Have they been able to stop the whipsaw between ALPA carriers? Did they stop it with ASA and CMR?

When they come up with a plan, let me know..... until then expect most people to see ALPA for what it is..... a total failure.....
 
I believe an in house union that combines the ASA and Skywest pilots under one seniority list, is the best course of action.....

SAPA clearly isn't the solution...... and neither is ALPA......

SECOND THAT!!

(except the one list part)
 
I think that there wouldn't be a fair way to make one list. I think that ASA would be stapled to the bottom and again we are the step children.
I think that it would make more problems trying to merge 1 list. Your thoughts.
 
LOL! Staple to the bottom of the list wouldn't do much to many of the ASA'ers- isn't like there is an abundance of QUALIFIED Captain candidates over there. SkyWest grew so quickly, so much, that I'm sure most of the pilots wouldn't have the 2500 hours to upgrade.
 
I think that there wouldn't be a fair way to make one list. I think that ASA would be stapled to the bottom and again we are the step children.
I think that it would make more problems trying to merge 1 list. Your thoughts.

That's not true. The Alleghany-Mohawk award would be the model.... Basically there would be "relative seniority"..... If you are in the top 10% now, you would be in the top 10% with the new list....

There could also be "fence" protections" to prevent people from getting "bumped" out of domiciles....

Without, expect more whipsaw in which BOTH sides will lose.... It's time to look a little further down the road....

If not, the pilots will just have to accept what is given to them...... our choice......
 
Some of us would like to see "some accountability and change in this industry" also, but sadly ALPA has proven that it isn't up to the challenge. I believe an in house union that combines the ASA and Skywest pilots under one seniority list, is the best course of action.....

SAPA clearly isn't the solution...... and neither is ALPA......

Skywest pilots who have been around more than four or five years have tried several other attempts to organize including the Unified Pilots Association UPA, Certifying SAPA, and tried to get some other regional airlines to join in what would be the Regional Airline Pilots Association, RAPA. These attempts were all blown to pieces primarily due to not enough legitimate funding to get things started as well as apathy which is so prevalent among the group. ALPA, even with all its problems, weaknesses and conflicts is the only legitimate alternative to take some measure of control now.

Please reread the track record of Sapa and see what a strong hold they combined with management have had on the Skywest pilot group for so long. The funny thing is the less educated/experienced of the group, with little knowledge of how sapa pushes their bosses (skywest management) agenda through think they are being represented.
 
Basically there would be "relative seniority"..... If you are in the top 10% now, you would be in the top 10% with the new list....

There could also be "fence" protections" to prevent people from getting "bumped" out of domiciles....

I'd go for that
 
Skywest pilots who have been around more than four or five years have tried several other attempts to organize including the Unified Pilots Association UPA, Certifying SAPA, and tried to get some other regional airlines to join in what would be the Regional Airline Pilots Association, RAPA. These attempts were all blown to pieces primarily due to not enough legitimate funding to get things started as well as apathy which is so prevalent among the group. ALPA, even with all its problems, weaknesses and conflicts is the only legitimate alternative to take some measure of control now.

Please reread the track record of Sapa and see what a strong hold they combined with management have had on the Skywest pilot group for so long. The funny thing is the less educated/experienced of the group, with little knowledge of how sapa pushes their bosses (skywest management) agenda through think they are being represented.

The apathy is there whether it is SAPA or ALPA.... most regional ALPA members don't even vote in their local elections....

Whether ALPA or not, the fact is most regional pilots just want to "put in their time and move on".....

That creates apathy whether you are ALPA or not...

The problem ALPA has is a conflict of interest between mainline and regional...

At USAirways, the USAirways MEC assisted management in whipsawing the wholly owned USAir MECs in order to lower costs, which the mainline then used as a "bargaining credit"...

At many mainline carriers, mainline MECs have negotiated 70-90 seat rates that undercut ASA, CMR, Skywest, CHQ, and Horizon rates..... their excuse is that they are trying to "recapture" the flying..... If ASA or Skywest did the same, we would be accused of "stealing" flying..... There is a double standard in ALPA....

ALPA would be the best choice IF, and that is a huge IF, they could get their $h!t together..... as of yet they are more like a late night infomercial.....
 
Last edited:
The prospect of certifying SAPA, and "another" union was management's way of derailing previous ALPA drive. Through the SAPA mouth pieces they got a lot of people worked up about certifying SAPA, and then when the ALPA vote failed they simply said, never mind, and walked away.
 
I'd go for that

That's the way it would go down..... ALPA or not....

There is bad info. from both sides.....

The ALPA cheerleaders like to threaten the non-union folks with a "staple" if they don't join ALPA (ie Colgan, Skywest, etc.)..... That simply isn't true....

The anti-ALPA or ant-union folks like to threaten that the non-union side will get stapled if they vote for a union and the lists are merged.... likewise, that isn't true....

The ALG/Mohawk arbitration sets the standard..... relative seniority would be the result......
 
The prospect of certifying SAPA, and "another" union was management's way of derailing previous ALPA drive. Through the SAPA mouth pieces they got a lot of people worked up about certifying SAPA, and then when the ALPA vote failed they simply said, never mind, and walked away.


SSDD,

Valid concerns, no doubt....

However ALPA isn't a panacea either.... With ALPA, there will be outside influences from ALPA national and mainline MECs that may not be in your best interests....

There will also be continued whipsaw between the groups..... ALPA doesn't have a great track record of preventing whipsaw between the groups.... ALG/PDT/PSA and ASA/CMR are just two examples.... We were all ALPA, but it didn't stop the whipsaw...

What we need is a union that can put a stop to this "bidding" within a brand for flying.... My first choice would be to see ALPA step up to the plate.... But I don't expect to see that.....
 
The ALG/Mohawk arbitration sets the standard..... relative seniority would be the result......

Two points:

1. The ALG/Mohawk LPPs don't specify that relative seniority is the method of integration. Career expectations, much like the ALPA merger policy, are the primary metric used in integrations under the LPPs.

2. You imply that the LPPs are the only possible outcome. That's not entirely true. The LPPs would govern an integration under normal circumstances as governed by the ASA CBA, but another possibility exists. It's possible for the ASA MEC to negotiate a separate integration outside of the LPPs as part of the normal Section 6 process. This is what happened with the MAG/Freedumb integration. The list integration was negotiated during the Section 6 talks without any use of the LPPs, even thought the MAG agreement normally points to the LPPs as the method of integrating a non-union group.
 
Excellent posts, Torque. Keep up the good work and spread the word to your fellow Skywest pilots. You guys deserve some real protection, and a real contract.
 
120% torque,

Have you ever worked for an ALPA carrier? If yes, what have they done for you?
If no, just be quiet. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. ALPA is a joke. I love when I see SKYWEST pilots with ALPA stickers on their bag, like they know anything about ALPA. They buy you a cup of coffe and here you're being a good cheerleader.
We have our share of problems here at SKW, but what makes you and other clueless pilots think that ALPA is the solution is beyond me.
7,000+ hour "FO". That says everything.
 
Excellent posts, Torque. Keep up the good work and spread the word to your fellow Skywest pilots. You guys deserve some real protection, and a real contract.

Like Mesa, United, Northwest, etc. "Real Protection". "Real Contract". Let me go back to real life now.
 
Here is something to look foward once ALPA gets on property at SKYWEST. I love those ALPA supporters that think with a union we will just get everything we want "because we have a union". An airlne is as good as its managers, regardless of unions.

Pilot morale hits bottom, management gets a bigger shovel, keeps digging.

Fellow American Eagle pilots,

It is with great disappointment that I report to you the unsuccessful conclusion of our Letter 3 grievance settlement discussions this morning. Despite guaranteed movement of Eagle pilots to American and the resulting extensive cost savings to both companies, management refused to work within the framework the unions had proposed.

We are acutely aware of how important these discussions were to all Eagle pilots. It is especially frustrating to have been so close to a legitimate comprehensive resolution of all remaining Letter 3 disputes and yet walk away empty-handed.

Nonetheless, we will now turn our full attention to vigorously defending the Letter 3 rights and the legitimate career expectations of Eagle pilots in the pending arbitrations.

In conclusion, I want to express my deep appreciation to all Eagle pilots for your patient restraint, your unwavering support, and tremendous input into this process. I also want to express my pride in seeing your local council representatives vigorously fight for your unique and sometimes differing interests in any cumulative Letter 3 settlement. You are well represented by this current group of volunteers and I am proud to work along side of them.

We will update you on the arbitration schedule in our weekly hotline which will be posted on Monday.

Fraternally,

Herb Mark
EGL-MEC Chairman

Fellow Eagle ALPA pilots:

For the past few years, American Eagle management has told us that we need to reduce our costs. This has been the goal in every decision, in every department, at every level.


The Eagle ALPA MEC has worked diligently with American Eagle management towards this goal. We’ve worked on the longevity issue, the Captain Qualified First Officer initiative, the ACARS initiative, the Gate initiative, and the Pairing Generation Task Force. Eagle ALPA pilots have in fact delivered tens of millions of dollars in fuel savings to management.

The negotiated Letter 3 settlement that was crafted jointly by ALPA and APA has the potential to save the AMR Corporation money, and to immediately solve many problems for American Airlines, the APA, American Eagle Airlines, and Eagle pilots represented by ALPA. These discussions, if allowed to continue, represent an opportunity for the AMR Corporation to make a short term investment that could return a significant cost savings over time.

We are asking Eagle ALPA pilots to immediately communicate with Eagle management their level of dissatisfaction with the outcome of today’s meeting. We don’t want an arbitrator deciding our future. We believe the best solution lies with a negotiated settlement. Tell Eagle management to do whatever it takes to keep these negotiations going.

The Eagle ALPA MEC will teleconference this Wednesday. Until then, we ask that you remain professional. Please stay attentive to your email inboxes and the Eagle website for more information.
 
Torquey,
If ALPA loses, please do us all a favor and quit, or go to Mesa. You will never be happy at SkyWest.
 
120% torque,

Have you ever worked for an ALPA carrier? If yes, what have they done for you?
If no, just be quiet. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. ALPA is a joke. I love when I see SKYWEST pilots with ALPA stickers on their bag, like they know anything about ALPA. They buy you a cup of coffe and here you're being a good cheerleader.
We have our share of problems here at SKW, but what makes you and other clueless pilots think that ALPA is the solution is beyond me.
7,000+ hour "FO". That says everything.

Yes I have, two of them to be exact so I guess I'm going to go ahead and speak my mind. How long have you been at Skywest....yes it does make a difference in your your credability in speaking as a Skywest pilot.

I've got plenty of Part 121 Turbine PIC so dont worry about that.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top