Pinnacle Sampler Platter

[Speedbird34]

I have being happy at 9E. reserve but still smiling.
I have no desire to work for any regional airline in the USA nor do I consider any that much better than 9E.

 

[TurboAWD]

Can't you tell, he's a Streamer.

Ahh, should of looked at his A/C flown.

But then again, I thought we were talking about airlines, not Part 121 flight schools.

Turbo

 

[TurboAWD]

I have no desire to work for any regional airline in the USA nor do I consider any that much better than 9E.

And you are basing that on your extensive knowlege of the contracts at say, XJT, Horizon, Air Willy, etc?

All regionals are NOT the same.

Turbo

 

[mayoplane]

Not to offend you.

Care to say where you worked before?

Turbo

I said I am happy, not stupid. Too much personal info. .....I am not a streamer though. You all must be some hot-shot airline pilots to be talking like that! I'd love to work where you are at. I was a CFI like a lot of you on the board, the first airline before Sep 11.

You are so irritated with people who choose to live happily even though this may not be the best job around here. I don't hate you for being so miserable. I just don't like the new people who start bitching so soon after getting to 9E. With all due respect, nobody asked you to come work here, if you hate it so much, just leave. Can we all just get along now?

 

[Ghetto Sled]

I don't work there yet, but I've got to agree with Mayoplane. Most jobs, like life, is what you make of it. I'm still just wondering if Pinnacle is that bad or if its just full of whining pilots. If you guys hate the commute so much stop complaining and move to base.

 

[dondk]

I may be slightly off base, but I am pretty sure Mayoplane is a DTW CA and has been with 9E a good 4 years.

I will agree that too many FO's come on here and blast 9E who have less than a year. To be truly miserable you have to do at least 3 years

All kidding aside, happiness is subjective. Secondly, if you have been flying pax for any bit of time you will know that there are people that will NEVER be happy no matter how hard you try.

As for moving to domicile... have you been to our domiciles? They are nothing to write home about.

Is Pinnacle bad? that depends on what you consider bad? Of all the regionals, we are near the bottom on pay and work rules. We are near the bottom on company relations and treatment by management. For equipment, and growth we are in the middle. For schedules we tend to be near the top. For reserve, we are near or the bottom. For training, we are near the bottom. For contract resolution, we are near the bottom.

so if you break it down...if you can pass training and pass PC's, you will have plenty of days off as a FO to find the second job to put food on the table. When you work, you may be abused and the company does not care, management will do very little to improve your work environment. No contract resolution in sight and a divided and VERY junior and inexperienced pilot group. You will get to fly newer jets that are generally well maintained with decent crews. The trips overall are decent. Oh.. you will never be #1 in either seat in ANY domicile. The best you can hope for in is the top 10% in about 3 years for the right seat and 15 years for the left seat.

so... that is it in a nutshell, good and bad and it all depends on what you can live with, live without and your tolerances for each. it is a PILOT'S market right now, not a company market. Pilot's have the choices and should use those choices to find the BEST fit for them.

 

[bluefishbeagle]

I don't work there yet, but I've got to agree with Mayoplane. Most jobs, like life, is what you make of it. I'm still just wondering if Pinnacle is that bad or if its just full of whining pilots. If you guys hate the commute so much stop complaining and move to base.

You demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge of why pilots commute. Very seldom is it by choice, rather necessity. Airline management hates commuters and it they had their way you would sleep and live at the airport.

When a large percentage of a pilot group is unhappy it is not because they are whiners, something else is happening. You live in a fantasy world my friend and are a huge part of the problem facing aviation professional today. You are easily manipulated by the current trend in airline management. In chasing your desire to "live the dream" you would swim through sewage and never smell the shxt.

 

[XJohXJ]

I think it's great when people enjoy their jobs, and it is absolutely fine to come on here and say as much, even when it is an airline currently in disfavor.

However, it is annoying when people say misinformed things like "all regionals are the same, nowhere else is any better", which is just plain incorrect, misleading, and ignorant.

 

[TurboAWD]

I think it's great when people enjoy their jobs, and it is absolutely fine to come on here and say as much, even when it is an airline currently in disfavor.

However, it is annoying when people say misinformed things like "all regionals are the same, nowhere else is any better", which is just plain incorrect, misleading, and ignorant.

That is my point exactly. And DonK put out a good evaluation of the good and bad at 9E (although the schedules aren't always good, some months mgmt decides to tweak the pairing generator because they think they have come up with a way save $0.02 cents and days off go down the toilet).

The thing is, it will never get better unless we try to make it better. And telling someone to "just leave" is ridiculous as well. Duh, seniority system. That said- I'm working on it.

Turbo

 

[Ghetto Sled]

You demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge of why pilots commute. Very seldom is it by choice, rather necessity.

When a large percentage of a pilot group is unhappy it is not because they are whiners, something else is happening. You live in a fantasy world my friend and are a huge part of the problem facing aviation professional today. You are easily manipulated by the current trend in airline management. In chasing your desire to "live the dream" you would swim through sewage and never smell the shxt.

BS. I've got a general idea and I can smell guys like you a mile away. I realize Pinnacle has problems, I just want to know what they are. I'm trying to make an informed decision. Weighing, what I hope will be, a quick upgrade and having to commute or living in base. Some of us do make decisions. If I choose Pinnacle, I want to know what I'm getting into so that I won't end gripping and moaning.

DonDk, I appreciate the info. Thanks for the help

 

[PCL_128]

Ghetto Sled, I remember flying with a lot of new FOs that said the same things you've said. "I think a lot of people are just whining. This job isn't so bad. All regionals are the same." Yada, yada, yada. Just a few months later, those same FOs are bitter and pissed off because of how horribly they've been treated by one of the most hostile and incompetent management "teams" in the industry.

You would do well to listen to the majority of the posters here. When you've got one or two guys telling you that Pinnacle is ok, but a dozen that are telling you that it's a hell hole, then that should really make you take notice. Don't fall into the trap of that God-forsaken airline.

 

[dondk]

DonDk, I appreciate the info. Thanks for the help

Any time... I am not going to fill you with "pinnacle kool aid" our HR department is the BEST in the industry in doing that!!!!

What I will do is lay it out, it is YOUR choice. There are some decent things Pinnacle can offer and some things they may offer you depending on your personal situation. There are also some things from a "Pilot's perspective" that you need to know to guide you on your decision. Those are pay, work rules, schedules and equipment. Everything else is subjective.

So as long as you understand that pay is not the best, work rules are not the best, schedules are not too bad and in some cases decent (of course they can suck at times too), equipment is decent and there is a "potential" for growth.

If you are looking for the quick upgrade, Pinnacle can offer that. The trade off will be one of the worst if not the worst reserve systems in the industry. You have basically NO contractual protection under the current contract. Also, being a probationary employee it is worse because your limited on your complaining. Reserve for Junior CA will be about 3 years.

you will be flying with the new guys on the trips no one else wants (call in sick or drop) and on more than one occasion you will experience what it is like to operate single pilot 121 going into a uncontrolled field in the crappiest of conditions.

That is why if you live in domicile it can be "bearable". Still note you can and will be down to 8 days off and on more than one occasion will have a single day off between reserve periods/trips.

above is a realistic expectation for a guy looking for a quick upgrade that only another line pilot can explain to you.

If you have your paperwork in at any number of legacy, majors, LCC's and just need that PIC to polish the resume. Pinnacle may work for you if your Pinnacle career expectations are less than 18 months. If they are greater than 18 months, then I would expect to see you back on this board beating the heck out of Pinnacle.

 

[Rook]

Looks like you landed on your feet Dondk. Congrats on 'sticking the landing.' Keep giving out the honest info on 9E.

Rook

 

[gran_fan]

Future expansion...

any word about a new PNCL-DAL bases besides Atlanta?

 

[Speedbird34]

I have being on reserve for almost 2.5 years. I would love to see better work rules in some areas. Better pay for first officers and even a pay rise. There is room for improvement in the regional airlines.
But I still love my job. I had a line last month. No off street Captains after me for quite a while. Reserve for new captains will not be more than 2 years if we keep hiring and upgrading new guys. Maximum days off in some companies are 14 days. We have 21 day off lines of flying.
Great medical here better than a lot of major airlines.
When you get an airline job with 350 hrs which is what a lot of airlines are hiring. Please try to build some flight time before bitching. You are privileged to be building your flying experience in the Airlines
You did not have to go into $150000 debt to be a pilot. You could have done the traditional thing and built a solid background instructing or fly cargo and gotten to an airline under better circumstances and lower debt. You have my sympathy on the debt and keep upbeat and optimistic. You shall pay it off in time. Try to look at overseas opportuinities. Great pay in India, Africa, Europe and Japan.
I do believe no Airline Pilot should be paid less than $40000 a year. Maybe ALPA should approach the congress to have that passed into law.
This is not personal. I paid my dues as a pilot and spend almost 800 hrs every year in the air flying. Worked for low wages as an instructor, traffic watch, and government flying and just worked my way up the hard way. I worked with people who have more integrity in one finger of their hand than some of the noise makers on this forum. Losers who can not be successful in this industry and just bitch and spread negativity to aspiring pilots.
Being an Airline pilot or a pilot is a great job and we must work to improve our work conditions industry wide and not just at 9E.
The problem is nationwide epidemic. I stand by my statement that I am not interested in a lateral move. For me is up into a major or I stay where I am and retire. And I would not give up my job for just any major airline. It has to be better than my present job people.​

 

[TurboAWD]

I do believe no Airline Pilot should be paid less than $40000 a year. Maybe ALPA should approach the congress to have that passed into law.​

Well, I agree that a year one FO should make $40k, but was that thing about ALPA getting congress to pass a law a joke?​

I worked with people who have more integrity in one finger of their hand than some of the noise makers on this forum.

​

Please tell me what you are basing your evaluation of the "integrity" of your fellow flightinfo posters on.​

Losers who can not be successful in this industry and just bitch and spread negativity to aspiring pilots.

​

Losers who can not be successful in this industry? What the heck are you talking about?​

Being an Airline pilot or a pilot is a great job and we must work to improve our work conditions industry wide and not just at 9E.

​

Uh, being an Airline pilot CAN be a great job, but there are MANY downsides, particularly if you take a longer term view of the total career vs. the job. I enjoy flying, and I feel that this job is a good fit for me, but make no mistake, it is a job, and I am in it for ME and MY FAMILY, not for the flying.​

I am not interested in a lateral move.

​

Me either. But for people just starting out, I stand by the opinion that unless you live in base, other airlines are a better choice for most people and that Pinnacle is a inferior employer to most other airlines. Actually, even if you live in base, I would suggest Mesaba, even though they are not the airline they used to be.​

Turbo​

 

[PCL_128]

And I would not give up my job for just any major airline. It has to be better than my present job people.​

Every major airline job is better than your present job.

 

[woog315]

I like Pinnacle's ad on climbto350 today

"you MUST meet the following requirements:

1000TT
200ME
100inst
ATP written

However, anyone below the time requirements will be reviewed by the pilot board."

haha... you MUST (capital must! very important!) meet these requirements, but if you don't its not a problem.

 

[Windsor]

I like Pinnacle's ad on climbto350 today

"you MUST meet the following requirements:

1000TT
200ME
100inst
ATP written

However, anyone below the time requirements will be reviewed by the pilot board."

haha... you MUST (capital must! very important!) meet these requirements, but if you don't its not a problem.

Yeah...... the Jet U'ers dont have much more than 200tt let alone 200ME. Those min's mean nothing. It would be impossible to find enough qualified candidates if those numbers were hard numbers.

 

[dondk]

Reserve for new captains will not be more than 2 years if we keep hiring and upgrading new guys.​

In my 6+ years, 9E NEVER had "street" CA reserve less than 3 years. Right now guys are being offered CA in new hire class or within weeks after completion of OE, they are "basically" street Captains.
The "mentor" program is designed to eliminate the need to upgrade so quickly. Once the Mentor program comes into full swing (about 2-3 more months) reserve will once again grow. Some DTW CA's who have been on reserve for 2.5 years will see that come back their way soon. Take a good look at the FO seniority list, how many FO's are left that are senior to you on that list?

Maximum days off in some companies are 14 days. We have 21 day off lines of flying.

One of my comment was that the schedules are not too bad at Pinnacle, the most days off I ever saw was 22 days off and that was in DTW in '04. Also note, that the guys who hold these lines are the most senior FO's and CA's, or basically lifers. Anyone who thinks they will hold the same it will take years to get there, years...

Great medical here better than a lot of major airlines.

I sort of agree with this statement. The medical benefits is dependent on where you live and if your Doc's are on the new plan. In some parts of the country the Pinnacle Medical is actually very good, if you live in other parts it is actually very poor.

I believe we have one pilot where the nearest "in plan" doctor is 115 miles from his home.

 

[dondk]

Yeah...... the Jet U'ers dont have much more than 200tt let alone 200ME. Those min's mean nothing. It would be impossible to find enough qualified candidates if those numbers were hard numbers.

they can't find qualified candidates, that is why they use JetU, UND, ATP, RAA, CAPT and all the other programs.

the pilot review board is a joke, they barely meet and when they do they got a stack of hundreds and they get through maybe a couple of dozen. Once the QA guy does a risk assessment, most of those are nixed and sent a note of "we are interested, but you need to go to a "bridge program".

I would not be surprised if it came out that CS had his hand in the pot again and getting kickbacks.

 

[liv'n_on_credit]

I started Pinnacle over 3 years ago, now I am a MSP based Captain, born and raised in MSP.

Many people would give their left arm to be in my position...a CA based in their home town where they live. Everyone who knows/flies with me knows I am a easy-going/always happy guy, but, I am so unhappy at Pinnacle that I am leaving for Compass, where I will be an FO for a few months before upgrade. Yes, I am that desperate to get out of here that I am willing to be an FO at another regional to do it. That's how bad things are here. Here's a few reasons:

-My paycheck is ALWAYS short, usually off by $100-$200. I don't mind once in a great while, but every month is rediculous.

-Our Pref Bid is terrible...this month I asked off for 3 days, and NOTHING else. I told the system I would do ANYTHING(reserve, CDO, ANYTHING) just give me these 3 (non-holiday)days off. I got only one of them off, and 4 people junior to me got all 3 of those days off. I even had a pref bid trainer person help me and show me how to do it.

-I'm sick of seeing that our contract negotiations are going nowhere. It's been over 2 years, and no end in sight. That scares the h*ll out of me.

-With Colgan on board, I feel that management is just dying to let them do our flying...especially now that they turned down ALPA. Our management is way more cruel and corrupt than any other airline.

-I'm sick of seeing so many people get disciplined for NO GOOD REASON. They've tried discipling me twice for something I didn't do wrong.

-I have called in sick 1 time in over 3 years. 0 missed trips, 0 lates, 0 delays that were my fault, 0 call-in-honests, 0 extension refusals...You think I can ever drop a single flight? Nope. Forget about it. One time, the scheduler even admitted they had 14 people on reserve with no flights or open time to fill, and they still wouldn't let me have one out-and-back off when my wife got sick and wanted me to come home.

-I had to do the carpet dance with the base manager once because they tried junior manning me ON MY VACATION days! I should not have to explain to them my reason for not flying during my vacation.

I could go on and on, but I won't. I have plenty of friends at XJT, Air Wisconsin, Horizon, Chataqua, etc...NONE of these things happen there.

 

[Speedbird34]

Well spoken folks.
I feel our collective growl for better work rules.
Hopefully management and shareholders would get the message as pilot retention in companies become more difficult.
So keep the fight going!, but new guys realise that everyone must do what is best for him. if you get a job at any regional with low time. Take the job and run with it till you can get to the majors. Hopping from regional to regional chasing a few dollars more may not be worth it.
Do not get caught up with the small fish frying in a pan and not liking it.
The truth about this brutal business called Airlines
" It was designed to make shareholders profit even if Pilots were made extremely unhappy".
Livin on credit sorry to hear about your woes. Use your extension refusals. I do and it makes me feel more in control. I have not gotten into trouble for turning stuff down yet.

 

[Ghetto Sled]

Anyone willing to email me the contract you guys work under?