Pinnacle Sampler Platter

[Ghetto Sled]

Pinnacle Guys,
Not looking to start a gripe session, but I've heard through the grapevine that you guys just aren't very happy. I'm thinking about coming over there and want as much info as you guys can provide. Especially any pitfalls to avoid. I realize it's an old contract and the pay isn't the best, but what else? I figure if I know about it before I sign up, I'll have no right to complain.

 

[Quack]

If you live in base, it's not that bad (although i'd consider mesaba first), but would never consider here if i was to commute. the contract is worthless! quick upgrade, but you'll pay for it your entire time here

 

[Papps]

You will hate it, but i guess its alot like most regionals.

 

[TurboAWD]

The problem with working at Pinnacle is NOT the contract. Sure, it is old, out of date, and does not come close to meeting the needs of Pinnacle Airlines pilots.

The problem is management. They COULD chose to treat us with a tiny little bit of respect. However, they have chosen not to. They don't even honor our cruddy contract.

I know many might say "all regionals are like that". Although it is true that many (not all) regional airlines treat their pilots poorly, Pinnacle has redefined "poorly".

I would recommend strongly you look somewhere else.

Turbo

 

[Inconceivable]

See my post about the training pay...they will lie and cheat every chance they get!

They are screwing one class out of the $750 bonus for completing IOE. Suppose a (unlikely) maximum of all 10 pilots in the class made it--total cost to company, $7500--or ONE-THIRD the training cost of just one pilot who says "eff this" and bails out for another airline.

They don't trip over dollars to pick up pennies--they systematically look for ways to steal from you.

They are just bad people, plain and simple.

 

[silver02ex]

I live in MSP so it's not so bad. I've been here less than a year and holding 14 days off with every Fri, Sat, and Sunday off, so my schedule is good. Great group of guys to fly with. Reserve sucks but I was only on it for 2 months.

 

[Papps]

the only thing this company has to offer is quick upgrades and quick rides up the seniority ladder. This is due to the terrible working conditions.

 

[Ridgeback]

With all the talk of quick upgrades, does anyone stop to consider that if they get a FAA violation, which I was told that their are over 100 at any one time in the MEM FISDO, they are stuck at 9E FOREVER, because last time I checked FedEx has plenty of apps with clean records.

Think Guys a quick upgrade could be the kiss of death for a new guy.

 

[PCL_128]

They are just bad people, plain and simple.

This is the most concise and accurate statement I've read about Pinnacle management. Absolutely spot-on.

 

[mayoplane]

who not?

Are you going to live in base? Then come to 9E. You will not find too many regional airline pilots who do not complain about their companies.

Quick upgrade, a lot of days off when you are still junior. Pay sucks and reserve sucks.

It's about your attitude towards life. The unhappy people are always unhappy no matter where they are.

 

[TurboAWD]

I am glad some people are happy at 9E. But your low expectations don't change the fact that Pinnacle is a substandard pilot job. For some people it might be a reasonable choice (although, I really can't imagine why anyone would come here right now instead of XJ). But it is still one of the worst jobs in the airline buisness.

Turbo

 

[PCL_128]

You will not find too many regional airline pilots who do not complain about their companies.

You'll look long and hard to find a pilot at ExpressJet that is unhappy with their company. This idea that all regionals are created equal is nothing but BS. Pinnacle is bottom of the barrel.

Quick upgrade, a lot of days off when you are still junior. Pay sucks and reserve sucks.

What good will those "lots of days off" do for you your first two years as an FO when you're living on poverty wages and struggling to get by while still living in your parents' basement? But yeah, you're definitely right that reserve sucks. In fact, that's a major understatement. Human rights groups should spend some time studying the Pinnacle reserve system. Amnesty International would probably list Pinnacle in their annual report of human rights violators right alongside China.

It's about your attitude towards life. The unhappy people are always unhappy no matter where they are.

Is that so? I was miserable at Pinnacle, but pretty dang happy at my new employer. In fact, pretty much everyone I know that's left Pinnacle for the majors is very happy with their new homes. Maybe you should actually get out of the hellhole and maybe you'll see just how much greener the grass really is on the other side of the fence.

 

[Sonoran]

When I started at 9E there was no pay during training, and they did not put us up during that time. No per diem once we DID pass training due to the fact that we were all considered MEM based. When I asked KM when that would change, she smugged and said, "when pilots stop applying". I flew my contract, I supported my union. I guess I used the company as much as they used me. I got lucky and moved on....

 

[Ghetto Sled]

I'm just trying to decide between pinnacle and shuttle America. Pinnacle-quick upgrade potential but commuting. Shuttle-live in base and fly the 170? I think I'd be happier living on base, but the quick upgrade time is a carrot that is hard not to chase.
I just can't tell if things are really miserable at pinnacle or if you guys are just worn out and mad.

 

[RP170]

I'm just trying to decide between pinnacle and shuttle America. Pinnacle-quick upgrade potential but commuting. Shuttle-live in base and fly the 170? I think I'd be happier living on base, but the quick upgrade time is a carrot that is hard not to chase.
I just can't tell if things are really miserable at pinnacle or if you guys are just worn out and mad.

I know several guys that have left Pinnacle and came to RAH and are now much much happier. That should tell you something right there.

 

[Tram]

You gotta live in base or this place would be a nightmare...

 

[TurboAWD]

I'm just trying to decide between pinnacle and shuttle America. Pinnacle-quick upgrade potential but commuting. Shuttle-live in base and fly the 170? I think I'd be happier living on base, but the quick upgrade time is a carrot that is hard not to chase.
I just can't tell if things are really miserable at pinnacle or if you guys are just worn out and mad.

Good god, you live in a Shuttle base and are considering Pinnacle? Are you nuts? I mean, who gives a rats butt about the 170, but this is a no-brainer. The upgrade time at Shuttle should be plenty fast.

Now commuting FROM a Pinnacle base to work at a better regional like say ExpressJet, THAT might be worth it....

Turbo

 

[dondk]

I just can't tell if things are really miserable at pinnacle or if you guys are just worn out and mad.

Let me add a bit to this..

re-read your statement, are they miserable or worn out and mad? what is the difference? If you have a pilot group that is worn out and mad, it is basically miserable conditions.

okay enough of a rant.

Pinnacle is losing FO's at an alarming rate. Many new FO's don't make it out a year, they are long gone within 6 months to the regional of choice, corporate or fractionals.

the company is trying to put in a FO retention program. Now CA's they understand, the exodus of FO's they cannot understand. That in itself should tell you something. It is understandable why a CA is moving on, but FO's? it has little to do with the contract, it is more culture, pay, and overall treatment.

Pinnacle is not that bad, if you live in domicile, have an easy commute and/or have limited other opportunities. So... if you are a 300 hour program pilot, Pinnacle works until you become more competitive. If you are competitive, why not find the best job out there instead of settling for what is basically one of the bottom of the barrel regionals.

regardless, best of luck on your decision... at least you have choices, that makes it all the more easier!

 

[bluefishbeagle]

Pinnacle walks all over their employee's. Cheats them out of pay. Fires them for calling in sick. Cares nothing for their families. Con's pilots into flying in violation to the FAR's. And manages though intimidation.

If you go to work for them stand with your back to a wall at all times and guard your gonads (if so equipped) with both hands.

 

[dondk]

Cares nothing for their families.

I had this case about 2 maybe 3 years ago...

FO gets extended, he refuses... SOC makes a big deal out of it. During the investigation (on the spot no less) the FO states he can't because he is going to his mothers 91st Birthday party. He bid for it off and he was going hell or high water as his family were all attending.

SOC... no.. we NEED him he CANNOT refuse the extension.

PILOT.. I am.. sorry...

SOC... to base management, WTF?! are we now giving guys off for birthdays????

union... uh.. how many 91st birthdays a person has?

SOC... silence... we disagree, the cancellation will go on the base if they can't convince the pilot

Base management.. we will call you back.

Pilot goes home to birthday party, base takes a hit and lectures the pilot to be more "available".

Union reminds base that we have lives and we can easily remind ALL pilots of that fact if this attitude prevails. This was back when every extension refusal had to be explained.. yes, we had to explain why we did not want to work more than our schedule....

 

[XJohXJ]

Good for the FO. I wish more pilots were like him. We have to stand up for our basic rights and reasonable QOL. We bid for our day's off for our own good reasons, and the company has no right to throw it all away on a whim.

 

[Tram]

I told scheduling to stick it the other day.. You guys would have been proud..

 

[CrownandCoke]

let me put it this way to you. I have been here a year and a half. Upgrade is less than 6 months away. A huge jump in pay, plus building that precious PIC time. After crew scheduling pulled a BS move on me, I called my buddy who works at ASA and begged him to get me a job there.

Things are bad here; we are trying to make them better, but when you have a management team like Pinnacle has, it is impossible. This is a sinking ship. Go to RAH no matter what. Hell, go to Great Lakes before Pinnacle.

 

[mayoplane]

Still happy, sorry!

Yeah, if you can live in base with Shuttle, go for that.

I have worked for another regional carrier. I don't feel that it was much better there at all. Are ASA, PSA, Colgan, Commuteair, Mesa..... people happy? ... Being a regional pilot can be rough no matter where you are. It's not about being a 9E pilot.

When I came to 9E a few years ago, people used to say, "You are smiling, you must be new. " A few years later, I am still smiling and I am not THAT new any more. I know tons of people who are happy at 9E.

People are happier to be at major/National carriers not because they got out of 9E, but because they are no longer regional pilots, or maybe they don't have to commute any more. You think only the 9E pilots are happy to get out, you are smoking crack. I will move on eventually, but I refused to be miserable and be negative while I am here.

 

[TurboAWD]

Again, I'm glad you are happy.

That said, 9E really is one of the worst jobs in the "regional" buisness. I worked at another regional too (piedmont)- much better. Care to say where you worked before?

Turbo

 

[405]

I thought unions were supposed to protect you from the bad management types and BS workrules...

Huh.

Maybe I'm uninformed.

 

[PCL_128]

I thought unions were supposed to protect you from the bad management types and BS workrules...

Huh.

Maybe I'm uninformed.

A union is not a magic wand. Unions do their part to make things better, but they can't make things perfect. Pinnacle would be an even worse place to work were it not for ALPA. Just ask the people that were there before ALPA came along. Joe H., #1, was one of the original ALPA organizers at what was then Express Airlines 1. I'm sure he'd be happy to tell just how much ALPA has done to make Pinnacle a far better place.

ALPA can't fix everything. No union can. But it can improve things, provide you with certain career protections, and give you a voice in your profession rather than being subject to every whim of corrupt and greedy airline managers.

 

[arthompson]

Let me add a bit to this..


the company is trying to put in a FO retention program.
Pinnacle is not that bad, if you live in domicile, have an easy commute and/or have limited other opportunities. So... if you are a 300 hour program pilot, Pinnacle works until you become more competitive.

I thought hiring the 300 hours pilots was the FO retention program?

 

[skyguy40]

I will soon be a abused by pinnacle as I have an upcoming class. I know what I am in for or at least I think I do. I worked for another bottom feeder before (TSA) and all management seem to go to the same low life school. I have not worked for them in the past year as they would not let me have a "leave of
absentense" for a medical issue concerning my wife. So my only recourse was to resign from my captain position. So I will go to Pinnacle hopeing for the quick upgrade and then moving on to somewhere better.

I will leave you with this thought: It can always be worse somewhere else. Think GoJets!!!

 

[bluefishbeagle]

Again, I'm glad you are happy.

That said, 9E really is one of the worst jobs in the "regional" buisness. I worked at another regional too (piedmont)- much better. Care to say where you worked before?

Turbo

Can't you tell, he's a Streamer.