Airways folks - new CBA and E190 pay

[BoilerUP]

I work for a contract Express carrier, so I'm well aware of the issues surrounding the merged seniority list and the breakdown of joint negotiations toward a new contract.

There are MANY issues to be resolved before then, but would any East or West pilots be willing to throw out a semi-educated WAG as to what the E190 rates might be once there is a new joint contract? Also wondering what kind of percentage raise folks expect from the current West rates under a new joint CBA, and any other work rules changes that folks on the line want to see.

I know all this is very fluid and likely a year or more off, but I appreciate all non-emotional responses. Thanks!

 

[1Speedbird]

$75 hr for 12yr Capt and 21hr for new hire Fo. Plan a joint contract to give a 10% pay cut and reduction in retirement.

 

[PositiveRate]

Boiler,

That's a hard question to answer. I wouldn't expect a big push for higher 190 rates in this labor environment. A few months ago, that would have been a big priority in negotiations.

Before the temper tantrum of the millenium was thrown, many out West were looking for a 15-20% bump in pay rates and an increase in the company 401k contribution to around 15%. Under that scenario, you could have easily seen the top line 190 rates bumped to 120$/hr.

With a unified front, this could have been done. Unfortunately, things have unfolded differently.

One idea being tossed around before the seniority civil war started was a high longevity FO rate - basically someone who had 15+ yrs in the right seat would be paid a wage of 115-125$ or therabouts. That's off the table too.

 

[BoilerUP]

Thanks for the insight, PR.

I hope both East and West pilots are able to come together and secure a joint contract meeting all their requirements and most their wants...

 

[PHXFLYR]

Not a chance of that happening now. The "easties" are past the point of no return and would much rather "burn the place to the ground and hand the ashes to the west" rather than try to negotiate anything worthwhile for themselves. Interesting cast of characters.

PHXFLYR

 

[sgmick]

Maybe you should ask yourself why that is....

 

[TWA Dude]

We don't need to.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Maybe you should ask yourself why that is....

No. Maybe they should stop and ask themselves what exactly it is they are trying to accomplish. Something tells me they haven't got a clue has to how misled they were by their own ALPA leadership. And now all they want to do is make a bad situation worse. Amazing.


PHXFLYR

 

[PositiveRate]

Seriously sgmick? I would like to just say f'off, but here's some reasonable words....



I think this whole thing boils down to a couple key issues.

1) The East pilots have endured significant career stagnation and hardship and they want their paybacks no matter what.

2) The East group feels falsly superior to the West, which makes it that much harder to stomach the fact that a 3 yr guy and an 18 yr guy being next to eachother is what a neutral party considered "fair".

Here's an average West guy's take...

RE 1) It is understandable how an 18 yr pilot feels "senior" even though their relative position doesn't back that up. We get that. BUT, that isn't a trump card to punish the West. That's the basic attitude we've seen from you guys and it makes it almost impossible to empathize with that situation after how we've been treated in this mess.

RE 2) The false superiority is a real deal...kind of like racial tension where there are hidden feelings and agendas below the surface. It's almost like we sat in the front of the bus if you know what I mean....everyone knows deep down it's fair to integrate based on relative seniority positions, but a $hitstorm ensues when all that hidden stuff is forced to the surface....that's exactly what happened with the Nicolau ruling.

-----------------------------------------------
Here are a couple more observations, which are root causes of current problems.

The West see ourselves as having been reasonable throughout the process. Never demanding or overreaching for anything beyond a fair shake. We feel we have abided by the rules, crossed the T's, dotted the I's....yet, being the little ol' AWA group, it seems that doesn't matter because the process has been politicized and apparently our lobby isn't as strong as the larger East group regardless of how well we adhere to a clearly defined process.

The reality for a junior AWA pilot hired in '04 is that we are going on 3 yrs now of reserve with no end in sight. We are now far behind our reasonable pre-merger career expectations.

The reality for the senior furloughee before the merger is he has been recalled and enjoys a quality of life (line holder, CA upgrade soon, etc) that's arguably better than his counterpart out West. They are now far ahead of their reasonable pre-merger expectations.

So you have two groups who feel rightous. One who has played by the rules and expects fair results. The other feigns to be rightous and cry's foul while touting the great victory the West was dealt. Behind the scenes, though, they work dilligently to corral everything "good" from this merger for themselves and have been the true beneficiaries of the merger to date.

It's really quite disgusting because the West has gone out of our way to be reasonable and do the right thing only to have $hit smeared in our face.

We would have been advocates for you and were fighting alongside you for better contract right up until Nicolau ruled. We would have pushed for higher payscales for FO's with unusually long longevities and would have fought for better workrules, pay, etc for everyone accross the board. Together we could have accomplished something.

Now we're destined for more of the same as the road forward has been effectively destroyed by the East.


SO - higher E190 rates...I doubt it. Could have been, but not now. It's a low priority as we now have to deal with priorities that never should have become reality.

It's gotten to the point where the East has lobbied successfully to keep our callsigns temporarily separate after the certificates are merged claiming it's a "safety" issue. These are their priorities now....not a better contract.

 

[Sandhawk]

I thought that Dougweiser said the days of differential pay for different aircraft are gone - it will now be Narrowbody vs Widebody pay............

So the EMB190 pay should be the same as the 737/757/A320

Also, if the EMB190 is common to the 170, there is no reason that we shouldn't make the 170 a mainline aircraft as well............


Whaddya think?