Airways folks - new CBA and E190 pay

[PHXFLYR]

Regarding the widebody issue,only if we let him.
Regarding the 190 and 170 issue,I like the way you think!!



PHXFLYR

 

[The Victors]

Seriously sgmick? I would like to just say f'off, but here's some reasonable words....



I think this whole thing boils down to a couple key issues.

1) The East pilots have endured significant career stagnation and hardship and they want their paybacks no matter what.

2) The East group feels falsly superior to the West, which makes it that much harder to stomach the fact that a 3 yr guy and an 18 yr guy being next to eachother is what a neutral party considered "fair".

Here's an average West guy's take...

RE 1) It is understandable how an 18 yr pilot feels "senior" even though their relative position doesn't back that up. We get that. BUT, that isn't a trump card to punish the West. That's the basic attitude we've seen from you guys and it makes it almost impossible to empathize with that situation after how we've been treated in this mess.

RE 2) The false superiority is a real deal...kind of like racial tension where there are hidden feelings and agendas below the surface. It's almost like we sat in the front of the bus if you know what I mean....everyone knows deep down it's fair to integrate based on relative seniority positions, but a $hitstorm ensues when all that hidden stuff is forced to the surface....that's exactly what happened with the Nicolau ruling.

-----------------------------------------------
Here are a couple more observations, which are root causes of current problems.

The West see ourselves as having been reasonable throughout the process. Never demanding or overreaching for anything beyond a fair shake. We feel we have abided by the rules, crossed the T's, dotted the I's....yet, being the little ol' AWA group, it seems that doesn't matter because the process has been politicized and apparently our lobby isn't as strong as the larger East group regardless of how well we adhere to a clearly defined process.

The reality for a junior AWA pilot hired in '04 is that we are going on 3 yrs now of reserve with no end in sight. We are now far behind our reasonable pre-merger career expectations.

The reality for the senior furloughee before the merger is he has been recalled and enjoys a quality of life (line holder, CA upgrade soon, etc) that's arguably better than his counterpart out West. They are now far ahead of their reasonable pre-merger expectations.

So you have two groups who feel rightous. One who has played by the rules and expects fair results. The other feigns to be rightous and cry's foul while touting the great victory the West was dealt. Behind the scenes, though, they work dilligently to corral everything "good" from this merger for themselves and have been the true beneficiaries of the merger to date.

It's really quite disgusting because the West has gone out of our way to be reasonable and do the right thing only to have $hit smeared in our face.

We would have been advocates for you and were fighting alongside you for better contract right up until Nicolau ruled. We would have pushed for higher payscales for FO's with unusually long longevities and would have fought for better workrules, pay, etc for everyone accross the board. Together we could have accomplished something.

Now we're destined for more of the same as the road forward has been effectively destroyed by the East.


SO - higher E190 rates...I doubt it. Could have been, but not now. It's a low priority as we now have to deal with priorities that never should have become reality.

It's gotten to the point where the East has lobbied successfully to keep our callsigns temporarily separate after the certificates are merged claiming it's a "safety" issue. These are their priorities now....not a better contract.

Your post is fair, but it's easy to say everything has been fair and the the west group "would have done everything" for the east guys when half the east list got stapled below your list. Maybe the AWA should just cut their losses and run?

 

[iflyhigh]

Sandhawk:

Unforunately, the E170 are already being flown by the regionals. Thus trying to make them a mainline aircraft at this point is difficult.

While I think all jets should be flown by mainline, no management in the airline industry feels that way. We were lucky to keep the E190 a mainline airplane, otherwise down the road we would see more mainline jobs going to the regionals. (Nothing against regional guys/gals.)

 

[PositiveRate]

"when half the east list got stapled below your list."

You mean the pilots who were unemployed when the merger happened?

 

[ALGFLYR]

You mean the pilots who were unemployed when the merger happened?

Not true. There were over 300 ACTIVE AAA pilots employed that were stapled...

 

[PositiveRate]

We don't need to re-hash the MDA debate yet again.

These pilots were employed with no avenue to group II or better aircraft. You know this, but present it as if they were mainline pilots there by choice and able to return to the A320 or 737 at will. That is not true. A recall from furlough was the only avenue for return.

 

[On Your Six]

What would the fate of USAirways have been had AWA not acquired/merged with it? Liquidation was a very serious possibilty. This fact should be considered by all senior East pilots when they cry about their current situation.

That said, most mid-level to low-seniority East pilots would have probably found better jobs in the long-run had USAirways tanked and Southwest and others grown to fill its void. Sitting as an E190 FO at that low pay level for several years into the future is not too appealing...

 

[Hpilot]

What would the fate of USAirways have been had AWA not acquired/merged with it? Liquidation was a very serious possibilty. This fact should be considered by all senior East pilots when they cry about their current situation.

That said, most mid-level to low-seniority East pilots would have probably found better jobs in the long-run had USAirways tanked and Southwest and others grown to fill its void. Sitting as an E190 FO at that low pay level for several years into the future is not too appealing...

The fact that they were about to liquadate wasn't even put into the arbitration. If it would have been included I doubt they would have gotten the top 500 spots. The arbitration was decided based on what each group brought to the table.

 

[The Victors]

What would the fate of USAirways have been had AWA not acquired/merged with it? Liquidation was a very serious possibilty. This fact should be considered by all senior East pilots when they cry about their current situation.

That said, most mid-level to low-seniority East pilots would have probably found better jobs in the long-run had USAirways tanked and Southwest and others grown to fill its void. Sitting as an E190 FO at that low pay level for several years into the future is not too appealing...

Liquidate for US Airways without the merger, maybe, but probably not. AWA without the merger, bankruptcy?? Where would you guys be then?

 

[k9nole]

Not a chance of that happening now. The "easties" are past the point of no return and would much rather "burn the place to the ground and hand the ashes to the west" rather than try to negotiate anything worthwhile for themselves. Interesting cast of characters.
PHXFLYR

What a true statement.
It is going to get a lot worse.
Good luck to those on both sides.