Regionals (Eagle) to start sheding Senion Pilots

[CFI2766]

People forget.............

18 year EMB-145 CA pay at AE is LESS than 3rd year 767/A300 FO pay. 757 pay is about the same.

AA has the same domiciles as AE (minus SJU, plus DCA, SFO, and STL). I don't buy the QOL/commuting reason for not wanting to flow.

The work rules at AA are about 10x better than at AE.

They've got a pension.

There are solutions that can be reached here.

1. Send AE flowthrus to AA at current pay (would cost AMR NOTHING since they'd be paying them all that hourly rate anyway if they stayed at AE). Then all 400+ FTs would probably go.

And........

2. Withhold AE flowthrus at AE until they can hold the domicile of their choice at AA.

That'd probably take care of everything.

This solves the AE problem, but how is this fair to the guys already at AA? If I am a new-hire at AA, I want the same pay that the other new hires at AA will get, even if they are coming over from AE.

This is like saying an 18 year Comair guy should get 18 year Delta pay from day one of basic indoc at Delta. NOOOO way is that fair.

No, it seems as though AE did the right thing a while ago when it offered a career type of position in the regional airline industry. Now, frankly, because every other regional has undercut them, including the one I work for, they are finding themselves at a competitive disadvantage. This is unfortunate, but the only fair thing for AE to do is to honor their contract with the pilots who did nothing wrong other than to do what the company asked of them.

 

[pipejockey]

Simple solution....1 seniority list!! Staple Eagle guys to the bottom and all future new hires at AA will just have to suck it up and fly a barbie jet for a couple years. I can hear all the military pilots whining now. How dare they have to fly a barbie jet they all say.

 

[siucavflight]

Simple solution....1 seniority list!! Staple Eagle guys to the bottom and all future new hires at AA will just have to suck it up and fly a barbie jet for a couple years. I can hear all the military pilots whining now. How dare they have to fly a barbie jet they all say.

To the bottom? I dont think that would go over too well with the guys here with AA numbers, espically since the judge ruled that the TWA guys generated new numbers, this would put all of the AE guys with AA numbers ahead of them.

 

[BoilerUP]

To the bottom? I dont think that would go over too well with the guys here with AA numbers, espically since the judge ruled that the TWA guys generated new numbers, this would put all of the AE guys with AA numbers ahead of them.

Those guys wouldn't like it, but it would be in the best long-term interest of both groups to have all flying (or 95% of it, AX notwithstanding) on one list. AA/AE could accomplish what Delta & CMR/ASA failed to do!

Pay protect Eagle pilots at their current hourly rate and put a fence in place protecting current Eagle CAs from a bump/flush. Very little downside in that scenario.

Would it be easy? No. Would there be opposition on both sides? Yes. Would it be in the long-term best interests of both groups? I'd say very much so...then again, my employment was divorced from AMR 3+ years ago...

 

[eaglefly]

Those guys wouldn't like it, but it would be in the best long-term interest of both groups to have all flying (or 95% of it, AX notwithstanding) on one list. AA/AE could accomplish what Delta & CMR/ASA failed to do!

Pay protect Eagle pilots at their current hourly rate and put a fence in place protecting current Eagle CAs from a bump/flush. Very little downside in that scenario.

Would it be easy? No. Would there be opposition on both sides? Yes. Would it be in the long-term best interests of both groups? I'd say very much so...then again, my employment was divorced from AMR 3+ years ago...

The only way ALPA could vacate the current AA seniority numbers of Eagle pilots who own them is with those pilots approval on an individual basis.

Your idea is a non-starter.

 

[Starscream]

Simple solution....1 seniority list!! Staple Eagle guys to the bottom and all future new hires at AA will just have to suck it up and fly a barbie jet for a couple years. I can hear all the military pilots whining now. How dare they have to fly a barbie jet they all say.

I can't figure out what the big deal about a staple would be. It's not like any current AA FO would bid AE EMB CA. It would be a paycut. And there'd have to be a displacement (or a master shuffle) for him/her to get it. It's not like current AE CAs would be forced out of their seat, plus they'd keep their current 10+ yrs. of service pay. CRJ-700 CA would probably go junior to MD-80 FO, in my opinion.

The only way I can see this being an issue is if new equipment is introduced (i.e. EMB-190).

 

[Draginass]

There is no incentive for Arpey to integrate AE into AA. In order to get him to do that, the APA and all the AA unions would have to grant major concessions which ain't gonna happen.
Forget it. Most guys in the APA just soon see AE sold off anyway. If you think the TWA integration was a chocolate mess, try an AE integration. APA members are tired of the BS forced upon them.

 

[Starscream]

The only incentive for Arpey is it would eliminate any scope issues and 90-100 seaters could come on the AMR property without any issues.

Otherwise, I agree with you. Single list will probably never happen. The only thing I can see happening is a mix of military (obviously not a whole lot since we're at war) and AE pilots from the regional ranks when American starts hiring again. At this point, even 4th to 6th year pay FOs are expensive in AMRs eyes (since most other regionals upgrade after 1-2 years).

 

[eaglefly]

There is no incentive for Arpey to integrate AE into AA. In order to get him to do that, the APA and all the AA unions would have to grant major concessions which ain't gonna happen.
Forget it. Most guys in the APA just soon see AE sold off anyway. If you think the TWA integration was a chocolate mess, try an AE integration. APA members are tired of the BS forced upon them.

Agreed.

This ridiculous nonsense about either AA/AE mergers or pilot single seniority lists is just that.............nonsense.

Rumor has it that the ALPA greivance asking that AE flowthroughs with AA seniority numbers to flow as part of the furlough recall process has been won and after a certain pilot triggers it around January at the current recall rate, AE flowthroughs will be moving over in AA seniority order.

Just what a little bird's been chirping anyway.

However, ALPA and the APA have been meeting to come to some agreement about the last greivance lost by the APA on AA numbers generated by the consideration of many of the TWA acquiree's as "new hires".

Seems that the two sides would come to some middle ground allowing the continuation of furloughee recalls mixed in with AA numbered flow throughs that would also generate AA numbers (at the bottom of the AA list) for more AE pilots as a concession for forgoing a pure AE flowthru class makeup when this "trigger" occurs.

Nothing official yet, of course but the next month or so something should be forthcoming.

 

[siucavflight]

Eagle, I have heard this as well, and if it happens it will be great news for all of us at Eagle. This would open up hunderds of CA vacancies, and drop the upgrade to just a few short years.
But as with everything in aviation, I will believe it when it happens.

 

[eaglefly]

Eagle, I have heard this as well, and if it happens it will be great news for all of us at Eagle. This would open up hunderds of CA vacancies, and drop the upgrade to just a few short years.
But as with everything in aviation, I will believe it when it happens.

Well, it would result in slower movement to AA for flowthroughs and thus a slower upgrade rate, but would result in more AA numbers for Eagle pilots IF the APA and ALPA agree to some form of metered movement of flowthroughs as opposed to a 6 month or so period of pue flowthrough transition which would allow faster upgrades, but fewer AA numbers.

Even if the APA and ALPA could come to some agreement, AMR may balk and it would just be a pure flowthrough class makeup beginning around January at the current recall rate.

I will state that this will be considered "rumor" for now.............................................

 

[siucavflight]

Well, it would result in slower movement to AA for flowthroughs and thus a slower upgrade rate, but would result in more AA numbers for Eagle pilots IF the APA and ALPA agree to some form of metered movement of flowthroughs as opposed to a 6 month or so period of pue flowthrough transition which would allow faster upgrades, but fewer AA numbers.

Even if the APA and ALPA could come to some agreement, AMR may balk and it would just be a pure flowthrough class makeup beginning around January at the current recall rate.

I will state that this will be considered "rumor" for now.............................................

Same rumor as I have heard from someone on the APA board. The way that I have understood it is that the recalls are going to continue at the current rate(plus or minus 10 monthly), once the flowbies are gone then those with AA numbers will be called, and AMR will deal with the grievences that are generated by the recall happening out of "order" on a case by case basis, most likely resulting in back pay.