Thinking of Netjets and ..........

[ATRCA]

........i need some serious minds to assist. I have begun to think that I need a change. I have been throwing around the idea of NJ to some of my other pilot friends and most don't seem to like to idea for me.
Here is the deal...I have 8 yrs seniority at XJT, have a pretty good schedule and will comfortably make about 80K this year. If I busted my a$$ I could make much more but I'm not so interested in 10 days off a month. I am in the low 600's out of 3000 and have no MAJOR complaints. I just feel like there is more out there and I would like to find something that feels more stable. I have applied to several majors ( 6000TT, 2000 Jet PIC, 4500 jet, 2 types) but have very few good connections and as a result ...........my phone is silent.
I have heard many rumors about more bases at NJ and other contractual and pay improvements. I feel like this is a permanent choice between 91 and 121. Should I be lucky enough to have an offer from NJ in the future I feel there is no looking back. I am a little concerned that upgrade times at NJ are a bit long and I would obviously like to make as much as possible as soon as possible. What do you guys think? Those of you who have left pretty good jobs for NJ....are you happy? Thanks.

 

[Buddro]

ATRCA,

I have been at NJA for 1.5 years. I love certain things others I don't care for. But in today's world what job is perfect? I personally think Netjets is the best job in the industry! Overall it is a great job that you don't have to worry about if it will be there tomorrow. There are drawbacks....the best schedule you will ever have there will only be 7 on 7 off....however if your lucky you can get a line with most if not all the holidays off (unlike the airlines).

What it boils down to is you have to do what's best for you and your family. Netjets is a OUTSTANDING company to work for. They actually care for you and your family.

As far as negotiations....Oct 1 is the bargaining deadline. There is ALOT of stuff being discussed. I think if things go as planned, this place will be on the boards as the best JOB in AVIATION. It's probably not a bad idea to get the ball rolling now if your seriously interested, decide later.

Feel free to PM me with any questions...

 

[Diesel]

Fractional flying will probably be the most challenging type of flying you'll ever do. Every day creates a new challenge, with a new problem, with a new solution... The list goes on and on.

One day you'll be in the ne corridor, then some mountain airport. You'll be all over the place. It takes some getting used to not having a schedule but the challenge is there.

 

[BeechScrub]

I recently made the jump to NJA after 6 years of abuse at a regional. So far I've been very impressed. The company, although not perfect, does genuinely care about its employees. The union is strong, effective, and actually works WITH the company in a ton of areas. The job is very challenging, and I work harder while on duty than I did at the airline. Flying is definitely the easy part of the job. The variety of flying is great. For me, not knowing my schedule or where I'll end up is part of the appeal. So far the pax have been pretty cool and I've flown some interesting people.

Things could be changing here for the better in the near future, pending review and ratification, but we really don't know since we haven't seen anything in writing yet. In my opinion, if the basing gets fixed, FO's get a raise, and some other minor issues get fixed, this will definitely be a great place to hang your hat (although it already is....and we don't wear hats). Your concerns about upgrade time are valid. Right now it's running about 2.5 years, but by the time my number comes up, I'm guessing it could be anywhere from 3-5. I sure hope it's closer to 3 years. I'm prepared for 5, but it sure would be easier to handle with a raise for FO's.

Overall, it's a cool job, awesome flying, and a great company. Not perfect, but in this business, what is. I would certainly follow Buddro's advice and apply now. If the IBB passes, I'm sure the floodgates will open on the resume stack.

 

[DO-82 driver]

I believe the door for current, non-fractional pilots has closed for a while at NJA.

If the Oct vote passes, this place will be flooded with applications from pilots from the other fractionals. Many of which are currently typed in the a/c NJA operates.

Not to hire them over other types of pilots doesn't make sense from NJA's point of view. These people are "plug and play", they know what the business entails and don't have to be programed to think like a fractional pilot-----I mean this with respect to owner services.

Training would be easier, they are already familiar with the fractional way of life and hiring away from our competition would have some obvious market share advantages.

This is occuring as NJA has a record number of a/c being delivered and there is a definate need to get as many pilots trained and out on the road as safely and quickly as possible

 

[Guitar Guy]

I'd say that I'm happy after nearly 3 years at NJA. It's not necessarily the job for every pilot though. That said, I much prefer the type of flying we do to the regional flying that I did.

As for the long upgrade times, I think there's two sides to that. Yep, the current SIC payscale stinks (though that MAY change if IBB is successful). But if an established company has a quick upgrade, it's probably not that great of a job. Look at some of the regionals that are hiring street captains versus some of the traditional major 121 or freight (UPS/FedEx) companies that aren't upgrading after only 1-2 years with the company.

I do agree partially with DO-82. If IBB is successful, meaning that basing is expanded and SIC pay goes up, there'll be a big rush at NJA. However, I'm not convinced that NJA would necessarily stop hiring non-frax pilots. Having an internal recommendation makes a big difference, for instance.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Willy21]

As said earlier, get the ball rolling now. I recomended a friend in FEB, have exchanged a few e-mails with Derinda and he is still waiting for an interview. (Should come this fall) It will take awhile for the interview to come, and with Oct 1st around the corner that wait will get longer. When you interview comes take it or turn it down, but get a resume in now so you can have that choice.

 

[skiandsurf]

As said earlier, get the ball rolling now. I recomended a friend in FEB, have exchanged a few e-mails with Derinda and he is still waiting for an interview. (Should come this fall) It will take awhile for the interview to come, and with Oct 1st around the corner that wait will get longer. When you interview comes take it or turn it down, but get a resume in now so you can have that choice.

This is what surprises me. Everyone says that we are having a hard time hiring people with these domiciles. Yet your friend is waiting months for an interview.

Are we still hiring big numbers? (30 in my newhire class).

Is there really a waiting list for new owners (due to lack of planes and crews)?

In the published attrition lists, I dont see the big number of new guys leaving. Sure we are losing maybe 10%, but that is nowhere close to the 50% number I have have heard.

 

[Buddro]

This is what surprises me. Everyone says that we are having a hard time hiring people with these domiciles. Yet your friend is waiting months for an interview.

Are we still hiring big numbers? (30 in my newhire class).

Is there really a waiting list for new owners (due to lack of planes and crews)?

In the published attrition lists, I dont see the big number of new guys leaving. Sure we are losing maybe 10%, but that is nowhere close to the 50% number I have have heard.

Ski,

I heard it straight from the horses mouth (I did a sales demo a few months back).....There is a waiting list for new owners!

I think Netjets is making people sit waiting list at the same time. After all there is nothing better than telling someone who has all the money in the world you can't have this. You have to wait. It makes them want it that much more. Plus it adds to the prestige.

 

[Guitar Guy]

To chime on the past few posts, I think the wait for an interview is partially tied to the applicant's domicile selection(s). I recommended someone back in Feb who wanted LAX and he got an interview in about 6-7 weeks. From what I've heard, DAL and PBI are the longest waits to get the interview invitation.

As for the waiting list for owners, I thought it was a question of the fleet involved. I've Sovereigns and XL's are backed up as we await more deliveries. In the past, Marquis cards have also had waiting lists, depending on the plane invovled, particularly the XL. In fact, at one point, Marquis was pushing a combo 400XP/XL card as the only way to get access to the XL.

 

[Ladi]

Question from a Flight Attendant.....

At NJ when you are on your 7 days, are you w/ the same F/A (if you fly a large cabin a/c) or does it change? And during those 7 days do you ever have a nite back at home? ie, in that evening and back out in the morning? Or are all the overnites always away?

I am asking because I see they are accepting resumes for Flight Attendants and I am sending mine in.

Thanks!

ladi

 

[Willy21]

I think the domicile issue has more to do with keeping current sic's on property. If we keep bringing people in to replace people that are already here then we are not growing. With a net of 60 airplanes in '08 we need the number of pilots to get over 3000. When I interviewed last summer they were saying the goal was to be at or close to that number by the first quarter '08. Last I checked we are still about 2700 or so.

 

[jtf]

NetJets will hopefully be my last job. I looked long and hard and decided the relative stability, variety of flying, and reasonable pay were worth the trade off of possibly better money and schedules, but also the constant threat of furlough, bankruptcy, and mergers at the airlines. I took a pay hit from my former captain position to come here, but even as an FO I am fairly close when you count the benefits that I didn't have or would have had to pay a lot for at my previous job. I'll blow it away once I upgrade. Express Jet may be one of the better regionals out there, but regionals just are not a stable place to be with the legacies whipsawing their regional partners even when things are going well for them.

Another thing to think about is that there is nothing that says you can't go back to the airlines if the fractionals don't work for you. There have been some pilots who have left NJA for Fedex, UPS, Southwest, and Continental, but very few since the job here is such a good one since the contract of 2005.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I believe when the pilots start their 7 day tours, they are gone for 7 days and are airlined back home/to base at the end. I would assume it's the same for flt attendents.

cliff
YIP

 

[fischman]

Question from a Flight Attendant.....

At NJ when you are on your 7 days, are you w/ the same F/A (if you fly a large cabin a/c) or does it change? And during those 7 days do you ever have a nite back at home? ie, in that evening and back out in the morning? Or are all the overnites always away?

I am asking because I see they are accepting resumes for Flight Attendants and I am sending mine in.

Thanks!

ladi

Ladi,

As far as I know they are not accepting applications for NJA, but I think they are at NJI. You are usually paired with the same crew all week. You may overnight at home, but you never know. In my 3 years at NJA, I have had 3 overnights in my base. If you overnight at your base, you have the option to go home or get a hotel.

 

[Guitar Guy]

I believe when the pilots start their 7 day tours, they are gone for 7 days and are airlined back home/to base at the end. I would assume it's the same for flt attendents.

It's certainly possible to have an overnight at home on occasion. It depends on luck of the draw, so to speak, but I do get some overnights. And some crewmembers even get "show at home" assignments, so that can also produce a few extra nights off the road.

 

[stingray]

I've been at NJA just over 6yrs, I belive it is one of the better jobs around.
If you are even thinking about NJA, Put your resume in now, by the time you send a resume in and get your application filled out and sent back and then sceduled for an interview can be months, so do it now.
You don't have to make the decision to leave your current job for NJA immediately, but at least get the process started so you have the ability to make the choice.

 

[doylehargraves]

What it boils down to is this. Answer these questions for yourself:

Do you want to be called at 3am in the morning for trips?
Do you want to be gone for more than 6 days at a time?
Do you want to load luggage and clean airplanes all day?
Do you want your plans for the day to be changed 4 times before you leave the hotel or possibly in route?
Do you want to eat crew food the rest of your life?

In my opinion. If I were you, I would stay at XJT. All you guys do is show up to the cockpit and go. No sweating in the heat of the summer loading bags and cleaning the airplane etc... If I had that kind of seniority, I wouldn't leave. If you can't survive on $80k a year, your problems aren't where you work.

 

[hammer2]

What it boils down to is this. Answer these questions for yourself:

Do you want to be called at 3am in the morning for trips?
Do you want to be gone for more than 6 days at a time?
Do you want to load luggage and clean airplanes all day?
Do you want your plans for the day to be changed 4 times before you leave the hotel or possibly in route?
Do you want to eat crew food the rest of your life?

In my opinion. If I were you, I would stay at XJT. All you guys do is show up to the cockpit and go. No sweating in the heat of the summer loading bags and cleaning the airplane etc... If I had that kind of seniority, I wouldn't leave. If you can't survive on $80k a year, your problems aren't where you work.

You did'nt drink enough powdered yaks milk when you were younger. Take a hard look at your work ethics!!!

 

[CA1900]

Do you want to be called at 3am in the morning for trips?

You mean like I did when pulling reserve at an airline?

No thanks. I much prefer to know my start time before I go to bed the night before. That's how it works at NJ.

Do you want to be gone for more than 6 days at a time?

If it means I get to be home for more than 6 days at a time, then yes, absolutely. I'd rather work a longer stretch, then have lots of time off. 7 days off is nice.

Plus, as a newhire, my vacation gets me two 21-day stretches of time off in a year. As a 10-year pilot, I get four of them a year. In both cases, I get hotel and airline points that buy me a positive-space seat and a kickass hotel room, anywhere I want.

Do you want to load luggage and clean airplanes all day?

I'd say I generally spend less than 20 minutes a day on those tasks. Throw a few items in the trash bag, drop it on the ramp for the line service to take away, wipe a tray table or two, and run the vacuum for 30 seconds. For any significant cleaning, I down the plane and call a pro.

Do you want your plans for the day to be changed 4 times before you leave the hotel or possibly in route?

Truly, I don't care. The last-minute change to the plan the other day meant they could only find a First Class seat for me to get home from the new city. Oh, well.

I greatly prefer the variety of flying I see at NJA to the monotony of going back to Cleveland every other leg. That's me. Some folks like the consistency and the predictability, and that's fine too. But don't denigrate those of us who find it boring hell to go back and forth to a hub. Different people like different kinds of flying.

Besides, if the "new plan" schedules me to do more work than my body can handle, I simply call up and tell them I'm too tired. I get 14 hours off, and they find somebody else. I did it just last week, in fact, and enjoyed a nice mid-week break by the pool at a Hilton to recuperate.

Do you want to eat crew food the rest of your life?

Beats eating from Burger King and that godawful bagel shop in Cleveland for the rest of my life, hands-down. The roast pork loin and fresh-made red-skinned mashed potatoes I had last week out of Eagle were absolutely phenomenal. Next week I might enjoy a pulled pork sandwich, a chorizo breakfast burrito, or maybe a nice sirloin.


No, this job isn't for everyone. It's more work, but more rewarding work, than I experienced at the airlines. But I think you have some serious misconceptions about what we do in a typical day. That's OK -- my last boss had the same misconceptions about the NJA job when I gave my notice to leave that one. There's a lot of misinformation out there.

No sweating in the heat of the summer loading bags and cleaning the airplane etc...

Yeah, like a regional pilot doesn't sweat in the cockpit of his RJ, with a deferred APU and a useless ground A/C unit... (And yes, that exact scenario played out when I airlined on CoEx the other day.)

No sweating here, either, because I run the APU to my heart's content, no questions asked, put a CD in the cabin stereo, and spend a few minutes getting the plane prepped for the next flight before I sit down inside and enjoy my lunch on my 90-minute turn. I had a couple hours of down time in Denver the other day, and we played a nice game of pool in the pilot's lounge at Signature while waiting for our passengers.


You're not cut out for this job -- I get it. I happen to like it, and the rewards, both financial and in quality of life, are substantial.