Lockheed Martin!!!! Way to go!!! Not!!

[NW_Pilot]

I bet the CEO's are raking in the pay check's while degrading our service etc. on hold for 5 min "Not Bad Usually 20 min" they answer give me my preflight brief every thing is ok no TFR's no major notams except for BFI for airport ground work!!! I launch call Unicom at an airport about 10 min away to pick up a friend. I get a response Ummm aircraft inbound airport is closed as per notam during the air show hold for 10 to 15 and we can let you in between performances!!!! While holding a few other pilots inbound same issue. Thank you Lockheed Martin for not mentioning that notam.

I will add this to my list like not Filing IFR flight plans etc.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

I will add this to my list like not Filing IFR flight plans etc.

You're kidding, right???

 

[gear goes down]

I hate them!! They have lost so many of my VFR and IFR flight plans I lost count. I love it when I try to activate a plan and they dont have it. Or, wait!! My best one is where I gave them my VFR flight plan, activated it, then CLOSED it at my destination, then THEY start search and rescue!! What a bunch of idiots!

 

[propsarebest]

ummm... it is the responsibility of the PIC to check for ALL notams. NOT the briefer.

 

[svcta]

ummm... it is the responsibility of the PIC to check for ALL notams. NOT the briefer.

Assuming that you're without a handy internet connection, how would you propose one would get them if not by FLIGHT SERVICE?

Lockheed sucks.

 

[Thedude]

I you ask for the NOTAMS and aren't given the correct ones....what is one supposed to do

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

ummm... it is the responsibility of the PIC to check for ALL notams. NOT the briefer.

^^^^
retarded

CE

 

[A Squared]

ummm... it is the responsibility of the PIC to check for ALL notams. NOT the briefer.

Ummm, right. and how does that PIC check for NOTAMS ?????? (Assuming no duats access and no dispatcher to do it for him)

Ummmmm, ya suppose he call flight service? Ummm because if you don't have DUATS or some other computer acess to the notams, FAA is the plac you are supposred to go and is officially the source of NOTAMS for pilots.....Ummmm, ya think?

 

[NW_Pilot]

Ummm, right. and how does that PIC check for NOTAMS ?????? (Assuming no duats access and no dispatcher to do it for him)

Ummmmm, ya suppose he call flight service? Ummm because if you don't have DUATS or some other computer acess to the notams, FAA is the plac you are supposred to go and is officially the source of NOTAMS for pilots.....Ummmm, ya think?

It was better when the FAA had control, last time I was in Muskegon, MI I hung up after burning 150 cell phone min's and obtained the towers number to file IFR they had many complaints that weekend. Two day's before I called for my clearance from independence ks at the H/S line and no IFR flight plan on file had to refile right there at the end of the runway with a new mustang burning lots of fuel behind me!

Try to find a briefer that can brief the North Atlantic, Pacific Routes, or Mexico....When in Bangor you get some idiot in AZ, FAA when I am in the NW or NE I don't need a briefer that is in FL, TX or AZ.

I am Glad it was not a TFR or any thing serious like flying a plane with out comms that could have ended up bad and ruining the air show. Seeing aerobatic planes with their smoke on is not unusual for the airport I was stopping at either. There is a lot of practice and training there it's cow country and a practice area.

Lockheed Martin has no place in the Civilian Sector they need to go back to war mongering!!!

End Rant!

 

[NW_Pilot]

ummm... it is the responsibility of the PIC to check for ALL notams. NOT the briefer.

Whatever,

We call 1800 WX-Brief for notams tfr's and weather, Now staffed by a bunch of idiots/moron's that are incompetent.

I really like, There no such airway R464 or Intersection BART, BLUFF, & BAKON Etc and airway's start with V not R sir! as for the weather data and charts our system don't have them, I figured they would be training their briefers a little better. You want to file a What flight plan? ICAO! Hold on need to transfer you to a different briefer sorry you need a briefer that can handle international flight's! Your taking a 172 to whare? Endurance on this 172? 17 hours! Your joking, NO! OK, Any remarks or comments? Yea, I would like to add over gross condition, Fuel on board 181 Gallons, (Required on Ferry Permit to be on Flight Plan), Climb 100fpm or less, No Changes, NO DP's, request Immediate Release No Holds, Cruise climb till XXX intersection or altitude. Let me ask someone how to put that in, Call for your clearance you get depart via the XXX departure!

Just 1 year ago it was not bad! Sad our goverment allows such incompetent's fron a contractor!

Ahhhhh!!!!! Now if at a towered airport file with the tower no mistakes! For weather I pay for a Jeppesen subscription. If no Internet available stuck with WX-Brief!!!

 

[kf4amu]

I you ask for the NOTAMS and aren't given the correct ones....what is one supposed to do

I had the same thing happen twice with briefers, even FAA ones over the last few years. I started a general thread on it, and a kind poster said I should have looked at other (unapproved) websites for NOTAM information.

I still think the briefer is kind of "the last line of defense" on a complete flight briefing.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

ummm... it is the responsibility of the PIC to check for ALL notams. NOT the briefer.

ummmm....go back to flying your desk you ground pounder. Clearly you have no idea what the job of FSS is which considering your position scares me. I'm glad your not dispatcing any of my flights...i'd rather "dispatch" myself than rely on your expertise. Scary.

 

[Princedietrich]

You know things have got to be bad with the FSS system when Phil Boyer publishes a page and a half article stating that it was a mistake to endorse this whole Lockheed/FSS thing in the first place.

 

[propsarebest]

You guys have missed my point entirely. It's simple- don't rely on one sole source of information- especially when planning a flight. It's just going to get you in trouble. Yes, there are other ways to look up notams, especially on the internet.

And yes, I do know what happens at an FSS, I used to manage an airport that had an FSS ON SITE. I used to have meetings with their people weekly and took the tour a million times.


Did you have a contingency plan?? What if something happened on the field and it was truly closed??
huh?? Or are you one of those guys that lands on a highway because you "ran out of fuel"?

 

[gear goes down]

Right from the FAA website for NOTAMs:

This QICP site is informational in nature. Current NOTAMs are available from Flight Service Stations at 1-800-WX-BRIEF (1-800-992-7433). Notices, restrictions, and advisories may change at any time and without notice. Do not attempt any operation in the National Airspace System without first obtaining and understanding a thorough pre-flight briefing.

Right from the FAA website for TFR's:

Depicted TFR data may not be a complete listing. Pilots should not use the information on this website for flight planning purposes. For the latest information, call your local Flight Service Station at 1-800-WX-BRIEF.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

You guys have missed my point entirely. It's simple- don't rely on one sole source of information- especially when planning a flight. It's just going to get you in trouble. Yes, there are other ways to look up notams, especially on the internet.

And yes, I do know what happens at an FSS, I used to manage an airport that had an FSS ON SITE. I used to have meetings with their people weekly and took the tour a million times.


Did you have a contingency plan?? What if something happened on the field and it was truly closed??
huh?? Or are you one of those guys that lands on a highway because you "ran out of fuel"?

Once again, typical ground pounder. Do you really think we have time to consult "multiple" sources for the same information? So much for ever leaving on time...or better yet, how about a two hour show, just so we can check notams in triplicate! (oh, but wait that would extend duty times)

For the record I am a CM of AAAE and x-airport manager and speaking from experience 90% of airports managers that think they understand the pilot's perspective really have no clue or worse, don't care. Let me know if you need recent examples, I have plenty.

 

[NW_Pilot]

huh?? Or are you one of those guys that lands on a highway because you "ran out of fuel"?

Nope, Just to stop and get a drink at a local PUB and visit with some friends for a few days! Them AG pilots can really party.

See Photo

Planning to go land on the beach this weekend and do some fishing. Airport

 

[svcta]

You guys have missed my point entirely. It's simple- don't rely on one sole source of information- especially when planning a flight. It's just going to get you in trouble. Yes, there are other ways to look up notams, especially on the internet.

And yes, I do know what happens at an FSS, I used to manage an airport that had an FSS ON SITE. I used to have meetings with their people weekly and took the tour a million times.


Did you have a contingency plan?? What if something happened on the field and it was truly closed??
huh?? Or are you one of those guys that lands on a highway because you "ran out of fuel"?

You'd best retract the fangs because you're just wrong. Many, many times I've stopped at airports either planned or unplanned and there was only a phone to be found. A pay phone outside a dark building sometimes is all you've got. Flight service is sometimes the ONLY source of weather or anything else.

We don't always have multiple resources at our disposal; THAT'S THE POINT.

 

[kf4amu]

I love these "holier than thou" people who apparently always think of every outcome for every situation and never have a problem.

My 2 instances were a minor inconvenience because I had to divert to another airport. Both times I was given either 0 or incorrect information by the briefer as to the status of the airport I was flying to. No big deal in the end, but what if it was something more important where I was left with much fewer options?

Flight following is a huge help to cover inept briefer's misinformation. I always use it when possible.

 

[troy]

ummm... it is the responsibility of the PIC to check for ALL notams. NOT the briefer.

WTF?????? Are you on Earth, or just a true dumbass?

 

[propsarebest]

WTF?????? Are you on Earth, or just a true dumbass?

Yes you are correct o mighty CFII.

 

[svcta]

Yes you are correct o mighty CFII.

Too _______(insert adjective) to admit that you are wrong?

 

[avbug]

I called FSS today for the first time in a while. I went through the hoops, got put through to a "briefer" in Seattle. I asked if I heard them right; I was in Idaho. Yes...do you want a local briefer?

Now the case used to be that the value of the briefer was that he or she was local, knew the weather, knew the area, and could provide some valued input. Then along came automated FSS's, and finally we're down to this.

The woman answering the phone couldn't properly read the TAF/METAR's, and couldn't interpret them. Her information and input was worthless. She couldn't translate local time to GMT, and when she tried, she got it backward. About as untrained and unprofessional as one could hope for, or not hope for, as the case may be. Sad stuff.

 

[NW_Pilot]

I called FSS today for the first time in a while. I went through the hoops, got put through to a "briefer" in Seattle. I asked if I heard them right; I was in Idaho. Yes...do you want a local briefer?

Now the case used to be that the value of the briefer was that he or she was local, knew the weather, knew the area, and could provide some valued input. Then along came automated FSS's, and finally we're down to this.

The woman answering the phone couldn't properly read the TAF/METAR's, and couldn't interpret them. Her information and input was worthless. She couldn't translate local time to GMT, and when she tried, she got it backward. About as untrained and unprofessional as one could hope for, or not hope for, as the case may be. Sad stuff.

Thank You,
Avbug

We agree on something?

It's getting bad!!!! I miss my local briefer knowing the micro climate trends around here.

Bug if your ever in Portland, OR let go have a drink! I am buying first round!

 

[TrafficInSight]

Believe it or not I called today and got a briefer within 3 minutes and actually got good information...

Of course there wasn't a cloud in the sky over California today, and I only needed the briefing for the planning portion of my commercial ride, which I passed. (woohoo )

Every time I've actually needed a briefer lately I can't get one... or I get spotty information.

Recently, with a departure airport of RHV and destination MYF via bakersfield, palmdale, LAX colliseum route, etc... the "inland route" so to speak, they gave me weather for Santa Barbara, Santa Maria, San Luis Obispo, and San Bernardino. I had to ask for the winds aloft and weather at each station that I was actually going to need.

I do miss having a local briefer... sigh.

 

[WabiSabi]

And for some of you folks, your buddy bumbling idiot buddy Bush wants to privatize ATC as well. Judging from this Lockheed Martin debacle, it isn't a good idea after all. Sorry repubs or libertarians, market forces aren't the answer to everything.

 

[bell47]

Lockheed martin is horrible, plain and simple. I too have had lots of IFR plans dropped and goofy info given. Even the company canned flight plans get screwed up some how(I really don't understand that one!) I fly around the northeast and usually get a briefer from down south or in the mid west somewhere. It's gonna be fun this winter discussing lake effect snow with some briefer from the the Carolinas! I sure wish Bangor FSS was still there, I miss those guys. They really understood the local weather.

 

[svcta]

I think that most of us agree that some things should be driven by the bottom line. And I'm a libertarian. Some of us can get by without toeing the party line. How about you?

 

[LivestockTony]

It's gonna be fun this winter discussing lake effect snow with some briefer from the the Carolinas!

Seems like everyone in North Carolina is originally from Ohio, so as long as you get Raleigh FSS you'll be ok.

I'm pretty not happy with LM either, local knowledge was worth something... and there was a note in the (june or july) AOPA magazine that they'll be taking over DUATs too...

 

[ctab5060X]

Right from the FAA website for TFR's:

Depicted TFR data may not be a complete listing. Pilots should not use the information on this website for flight planning purposes. For the latest information, call your local Flight Service Station at 1-800-WX-BRIEF.

Local FSS...I needed a good laugh today!

and there was a note in the (june or july) AOPA magazine that they'll be taking over DUATs too...

Might be wrong here, but didn't I also read that we are supposed to keep DUATs (as we know it) through summer 2008? Something about we were supposed to have lost it this summer, but somehow managed to keep it active until next year... I just hope by the time that we do lose DUATs that LM has their freakin' act together and they don't bumble around like a bunch of idiots that don't jack.

For instance...I called LMFS the other night about the Presidential TFR in Kansas City, just to make sure that MCI was not going to be affected during my arrival or departure time...managed to get a "briefer" right away, but took 15 minutes of bumbling around to even find the TFR text, let alone decipher it. All I kept hearing was..."I just don't know...I don't have a clear map where I can see the outline of the TFR to tell..."