NetJets vs. 121

[Snaab]

Wanted to pick the brains of NetJets pilots...I'm currently a Captain for a regional and exploring 'the next step.' While I've always thought I'd progress in the 121 world, I recently talked with a NetJets pilot and it was interesting to hear about another side of flying I'm not intimately familiar with.

I've read about the norm (schedules, pay, equipment, etc.), but was curious about how the NetJets gig compares to the 121 world (assuming you've flown 121), upgrade times, benefits/vacation/per diem, intangibles, and anything else you feel pertinent.

Thanks very much, look fwd to your responses.

 

[cldsfr79]

NetJets is a great place to work. I worked in the 121 world for 3 years and have been at NJA for over 2 years now. I am very happy here.

1. Upgrade time at this exact moment for someone receiving a bid as of yesturday for captain is 2 1/3 years. Now, that being said, for someone to get hired today, the upgrade time has been rumored to be 3-5 years with 5 years been more conservative. People like working here and they are not leaving. In two+ years I have moved up only 170 spots. There are lots of young guys here and upgrade will be based mainly on new aircraft joining the fleet.

Upgrade will also most likely be in out smaller fleet aircraft (Ultra, BE400, etc.).

That being said, don't come here if you are looking for a quick upgrade or have dreams of flying a G4, BBJ, or Falcon as PIC right away. Just roughly stating, to hold our larger aircraft you have to be with the company 12+ years (as of today). A new higher may wait a very very very long time to hold those planes. As an FO you have a better chance of holding a large aircraft.

2. Vacation is great. Year, one your vacation time is prorated. During your second year you get two weeks, which if you are on the 7/7 schedule, you will actually get 3 weeks off total for every one week of vacation. I forget, but the guys who have been here a long time get three weeks of vacation.

3. Benifits are the best. 401k is matched 50% by the company up to 15% of your salary. Health is fully paid for by the company, in which $0 comes out of your pay check. Perdiem is $1.70 for domestic stuff.

All in all it is a better life over on this side of the fence. I like flying everywhere and seeing everything. The company treats us good (in my opinion) and the union is top notch.

I'm sure others will add more stuff.

 

[skiandsurf]

The real question is do you want job security or not?

NJs is not about flying big airplanes, its about knowing that when the economy goes south, were still ok. Its about knowing that when the fuel prices go up, were still ok. Its about when the security lines piss off the airline passengers, were still ok.

You will not fly the biggest planes to the same 20 airports, but you will fly small planes to 100's of airports.

 

[popgoesbubble]

Alot of good stuff put up so far one other point is at NJA I think you'll make more money in year 1 vs at the airline. You can plan on making 50K year 1. Also the company pays for hotel's during training I don't think any of the majors do this. Plus you don't have to worry about commuting which is a big plus or worry about having a Crash pad in say lovely JFK Queens like the Jetblue slobs.

Upgrade I bet will be about 5 years however, if you look at UAL, DAL, NWA or ALASKA all are saying 10-15 years to upgrade and thats still not taking into account the age 65 rule. I would look at our pay scale and only up to cat 3 pay only as I feel thats what most if not all of us will be at for most of our careers here.

Like stated before don't come here if your looking to build PIC time for another job. After flying 121 for 6 years and being a NJA pilot for 2 years I love the job and don't plan on leaving.

Good Luck

 

[skyward80]

As an FO you have a better chance of holding a large aircraft.

How long would a new hire have to wait to move to a FO slot on a large aircraft? Also, what do you consider a large aircraft at NJA? Please don't think I'm trying to be smart a$$y with that last question. I just wanted to get an idea of what you meant by what you said.

Thanks so much to all the NJA guys for their inputs! I think you guys have a great company, and I hope to get my shot at sitting in one of the seats of your shiney jets!

Thanks!
Skyward80

 

[VVJM265]

How long would a new hire have to wait to move to a FO slot on a large aircraft? Also, what do you consider a large aircraft at NJA? Please don't think I'm trying to be smart a$$y with that last question. I just wanted to get an idea of what you meant by what you said.

Thanks!
Skyward80

Dude,
Not to be smarta$$ myself, but check it out:
http://www.netjets.com/NetJets_Fleet/NetJets_Fleet.asp
Best of luck,
265

 

[VVJM265]

2. Vacation is great. Year, one your vacation time is prorated. During your second year you get two weeks, which if you are on the 7/7 schedule, you will actually get 3 weeks off total for every one week of vacation. I forget, but the guys who have been here a long time get three weeks of vacation. (4 wks / yr after year 10.)

3. Benifits are the best. 401k is matched 50% by the company up to 15% of your salary. (Actually it 50% of the first 15% thru the year, then they "true up" looking back at the begining of the next year to fully match 50% of what you put it. This is a VERY important difference!) Health is fully paid for by the company, in which $0 comes out of your pay check. (Plus dental, plus vision - all 199% paid by the company.) Perdiem is $1.70 for domestic stuff.

I'm sure others will add more stuff. Yep

Get your app in now & best of luck.
265

 

[johnsonrod]

The real question is do you want job security or not?

NJs is not about flying big airplanes, its about knowing that when the economy goes south, were still ok. Its about knowing that when the fuel prices go up, were still ok. Its about when the security lines piss off the airline passengers, were still ok.

You will not fly the biggest planes to the same 20 airports, but you will fly small planes to 100's of airports.

Yeah, but you might fly one of the fastest planes out there (sure, some people don't care - yadda yadda yadda). That Citation X looks like it's moving even when it is sitting on the ramp. Ask how many F16 drivers really care about the size of their airplanes...

Seriously, I have friends at Netjets and they love it - a few are from 121 backgrounds. It's totally different flying from 121 but you actually feel like you are flying vs. just monitoring systems on the same routes over and over and over. You will see new airports almost every day and you will get some exotic layovers. Plus, you would work for the true market leader - no other fractional can come close in terms of size and number of owners worldwide. Sounds like a great gig to me.

 

[old*art]

I personally love the Netjets flying, but I had a friend leave and go back to 121 because seven days was too long on the road for him and it drove him crazy when his night before briefing was rarely what he did the next day. I think only something like 65% of the next day scedule ever holds up, plus it changes throughout the day.

 

[Fozzy]

After flying 121 for 6 years and being a NJA pilot for 2 years I love the job and don't plan on leaving.

This about sums it up for me. I plan on staying for good. But in this business, you have no idea where we all will be in 10 years (or less). I just hope for this place hangs on for 25 years. If that happens I will be set for the golf course.

 

[VVJM265]

I personally love the Netjets flying, but I had a friend leave and go back to 121 because seven days was too long on the road for him and it drove him crazy when his night before briefing was rarely what he did the next day. I think only something like 65% of the next day scedule ever holds up, plus it changes throughout the day.

old*art,

Those are both really lame excuses on his part. I sure hope your friend is happier.
:beer:
265

 

[Cavpilot]

I personally love the Netjets flying, but I had a friend leave and go back to 121 because seven days was too long on the road for him and it drove him crazy when his night before briefing was rarely what he did the next day. I think only something like 65% of the next day scedule ever holds up, plus it changes throughout the day.

As much as most of us love our jobs at NetJets, it is not for everyone. I, for one, think its great not knowing what tomorrow will bring. I'm in my seventh year here and have yet to get bored.

 

[skyward80]

Dude,
Not to be smarta$$ myself, but check it out:
http://www.netjets.com/NetJets_Fleet/NetJets_Fleet.asp
Best of luck,
265

The website splits up airplanes by cabin size, I thought he had specific fleets in mind.

 

[tbkane]

The company benefits are really good! I was one who did 121 at a couple of different companies and then went to NJ. I am not a NJ cool aid drinker. I didn't like the job. I hated seven day tours, changing lavs, throwing bags, catering to rich pompus a-holes. (I had one lady accuse me of not cleaning the airplane properly and leaving dog crap in the back but she had the only dog on board all week) It is a good job (just good) but it is not for everyone. Remember too that you will be an fo for a very long time and some of the captains are there because they couldn't get a job at 121 when times were good (if you catch my drift).

I for one like the predictabily of where I am going, an ILS all the time, and hotels ready for you. Also I like the fact that the schedule is predictable. Not dutying in at 1 am and flying all day and then dutying in at 5 am then noon etc... Also the schedulers will abuse you and make you sit for 12 hours a day regardless of what your doing just to get there "value" out of you so the overnights are just that overnights. No time to do much of anything.

 

[Abbey]

Everything said above, both the pros and cons, are true. It takes a little more effort to be a NetJets pilot. We definately do more than sit up in the cockpit reading the paper doing yet another turn to BUF. There are pilots on the list that did/could not get hired in the 121 world when they were hiring everyone. There are also some very fine pilots on the list as well. Same as anywhere else. The benefits are very good as is the guaranteed time off. Seven days free from duty every other week is pretty tough to beat.

I was at a regional for 6+ years and have zero intention of every flying 121 pax again. Everytime I airline to and from work I have my choice affirmed in numerous ways.

 

[VVJM265]

Originally Posted by VVJM265:
Dude,
Not to be smarta$$ myself, but check it out:
http://www.netjets.com/NetJets_Fleet/NetJets_Fleet.asp
Best of luck,
265

The website splits up airplanes by cabin size, I thought he had specific fleets in mind.

Ummmm, not sure what you mean by fleets, other than aircraft types; large cabin basically equates to large aircraft. Those are the airplanes we currently have "on property" and we just started getting the Encore Plus.

 

[Snaab]

Thank you all so much for the replies....I know some of the differences are apparent and others are more subtle b/w NJA and the 121 world. A lot of really good points (job security, different airports, good relationship w/ mgmt, etc.) were made, and they are something to seriously consider. One can see why there isn't much movement on the pilot seniority list at NJA- it's a great place to work! I appreciate the time many of you took to answer my questions!

-Snaab

 

[On Your Six]

The company benefits are really good! I was one who did 121 at a couple of different companies and then went to NJ. I am not a NJ cool aid drinker. I didn't like the job. I hated seven day tours, changing lavs, throwing bags, catering to rich pompus a-holes. (I had one lady accuse me of not cleaning the airplane properly and leaving dog crap in the back but she had the only dog on board all week) It is a good job (just good) but it is not for everyone. Remember too that you will be an fo for a very long time and some of the captains are there because they couldn't get a job at 121 when times were good (if you catch my drift).

I for one like the predictabily of where I am going, an ILS all the time, and hotels ready for you. Also I like the fact that the schedule is predictable. Not dutying in at 1 am and flying all day and then dutying in at 5 am then noon etc... Also the schedulers will abuse you and make you sit for 12 hours a day regardless of what your doing just to get there "value" out of you so the overnights are just that overnights. No time to do much of anything.

I fly Part 91 but I formerly flew for United and I found 121 flying very boring for this very reason - my flights were very predictable. However, I can understand how some pilots would prefer that - to each his own.

I would argue that the 7/7 schedule at Netjets is fairly predictable - you can plan the rest of your year so long as you know which 7-day periods you will be flying. Therefore, you have great scheduling visibility for vacations and home-life in general.

Tbkane, to be fair, you were also waiting for your call from Delta. It might be difficult to enjoy what you have when you are looking forward to being somewhere else. I think Netjets flying is completely different from 121 flying and everyone should understand that from the start. That said, I have a few friends there and they all enjoy the travel, schedule, fleet types, benefits, etc. Speaking with a lot of people before interviewing helps.

 

[tbkane]

I was not necessiarly waiting for DAL to call. When they did I had to do some soul searching to see what was best for my family and my career. Upgrade was still a long way off and I had the opportunity to make more money at a major than at NJ, also we had a hostile takeover form US Air to consider. So on you six you don't know me or my situation so please don't post what my opinions or my decisions are please. Each person has an opinion on what is best I posted mine and to each there own but don't try to slant my post.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I was the poster child for what NOT to do in the airlines. Worked for 3 of them. 2 of them are no longer... and the 3rd just got prison raped.

I was having my rumpt steak and pommes frites (steak and fries) last week in Geneva, watching the boats come and go... And that little feeling in my gut told me I wouldnt be doing this if I was at Southwest.

NetJets is a totally different kind of job compared to the airlines, its apples compared to snake meat.

You'll never see me dragging a travel pro and a jepps case in one hand with a McDonalds #1 in the other through CVG again!!!

Best of luck to you. Oh and if you have family that depends on you to take care of them.... You better start looking into NetJets.


Wolf