Still No one has listed a reason not to have ALPA

[Thug Life]

Yes. Support your pilot group. 350 voices strong!!!!

My MEC speaks for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mr Wu]

Dubya, I havn't heard from you in a while.

He was busy moving from North Bumfcuk to West Bumfcuk.

 

[PCL_128]

Why didn't the MEC / Mesa Pilots step in and take care of it? That is who the responsibility falls on.

But Fred, that's too much common sense for guys like DX Rick. You're talking personal responsibility. You're talking involvement. They don't want to hear that. They'd rather just attack ALPA. Any mention of personal involvement and responsibility falls on deaf ears with the ALPA-bashing crowd.

 

[kngarthur]

Still waiting??? Come up with some lie management has not sent you in the letters.

HOw about this! TransStates, Pinnacle, Mesa, Eagle.

 

[suupah]

The memo sent out today by management about how we would save money if we don't pay alpa just shows how completely out of touch with their employees they are. Absolutely amazing. Completely offensive.

For every memo the pres puts out 5 more people decide to vote yes.

 

[TNHillbilly]

The memo sent out today by management about how we would save money if we don't pay alpa just shows how completely out of touch with their employees they are. Absolutely amazing. Completely offensive.

I was actually looking for investment advice. Thanks Colgan!! What a joke.

 

[TNHillbilly]

HOw about this! TransStates, Pinnacle, Mesa, Eagle.

Give your in depth experience with these companies please? Will you please list what ALPA has done to these companies specifically. I am really being serious here. Because I don't know much about these companies. Is it ALPA's fault or managements fault. Please reply. I want specifics because apparently you are the expert.

 

[PCL_128]

The memo sent out today by management about how we would save money if we don't pay alpa just shows how completely out of touch with their employees they are. Absolutely amazing. Completely offensive.

I just loved it because it serves as a great reminder to the pilots that the company doesn't contribute anything to their 401(k). "You better put that 1.95% in your 401(k) instead of giving it to ALPA, because we certainly aren't going to give you any money for retirement!"

 

[Mr Wu]

Dont pay dues, just invest in Colgans GREAT 401K!!!
I'd love to take credit for this but it was PM'd to me...

They brought up the idea of investing in a 401K and how much it will be worth... Well, here is how much a 401K would be worth if we had a decent one with matching contributions...


Annual Rate Of Return
5% 8% 10%





5 Years



With Match $28,690 $30,934 $32,517
Without Match $22,725 $24,502 $25,756
Difference $5,965 $6,432 $6,761





10 Years



With Match $ 65,307 $ 76,385 $ 84,886
Without Match $ 51,729 $ 60,503 $ 67,236
Difference $ 13,578 $ 15,882 $ 17,650





15 Years



With Match $ 112,041 $143,169 $169,227
Without Match $ 88,745 $113,401 $134,041
Difference $ 23,296 $ 29,768 $ 35,186





20 Years



With Match $ 171,686 $241,269 $305,059
Without Match $ 135,989 $191,125 $241,631
Difference $ 35,697 $ 50,144 $ 63,428

 

[70-SS]

Dont pay dues, just invest in Colgans GREAT 401K!!!
I'd love to take credit for this but it was PM'd to me...

Not a great recruiting tool COLGAN

No wonder junior fo's leave for other commuter airlines. Management does not get it.

 

[70-SS]

I was actually looking for investment advice. Thanks Colgan!! What a joke.

Since when do those idiots tell me how to spend/invest my money?

 

[Fred Rogers]

Since when do those idiots tell me how to spend/invest my money?

If you really want to make money you need to go into Airline Management. That's where the ca$h is.

 

[Godfather]

More sarchasm....

Annual ALPA Dues to pay for your CBA, legal representation, Alpa services @ 1.95% $780.00

Salary for busting your *ss for a 5 year Captain Saab 340 at Colgan roughly $45000.00 assuming an average of 105 hour mothly pay credit

The average value of a retirement benefits package at an ordinary 3-4 % company contribution after 20 years of service from a real employer other than Pinnacle and Colgan....$250,000.00+

Pinnacle and Colgan's current 401K investment $0

Look on the Colgan's face and Uncle Phil after ALPA is voted in...Priceless!!!

sorry mastercard, couldn't resist...

 

[FlyinScotsman]

ALPA does a horrible job of representing the "regional" guys, just look around the industry, even pre 9/11. Comair is there shining example, that is it. If you go ALPA, Mesa and the like is more like it.

 

[Fred Rogers]

You don't think that has anything to do with the timing of Mesa's contract negotiations?

 

[Mr Wu]

ALPA does a horrible job of representing the "regional" guys, just look around the industry, even pre 9/11. Comair is there shining example, that is it. If you go ALPA, Mesa and the like is more like it.

So I guess Mesa require you to pay for out of pocket for rental cars, tolls, hotels, etc, then submit an expense report that will take 3 months of emails to get reimbursed? Mesa will ask you to pay for a first class upgrade so they can deadhead you on a flight in which coach is full? Mesa will refuse to change your travel if you find a route that will get you home 11 hours earlier because they are too busy to tap a few keys on a computer?

Get a clue, guy. You don't know sh!t about Colgan.

 

[Beech Balls]

So I guess Mesa require you to pay for out of pocket for rental cars, tolls, hotels, etc, then submit an expense report that will take 3 months of emails to get reimbursed? Mesa will ask you to pay for a first class upgrade so they can deadhead you on a flight in which coach is full? Mesa will refuse to change your travel if you find a route that will get you home 11 hours earlier because they are too busy to tap a few keys on a computer?

Get a clue, guy. You don't know sh!t about Colgan.

And I'll back Mr Wu on all of that....that's actually not bad compared to what's happened in the past.

 

[Fred Rogers]

And I'll back Mr Wu on all of that....that's actually not bad compared to what's happened in the past.

I will also back that up.

Colgan Pilots
BEWARE!

The company is starting to rev up its union-busting machine. DO NOT BELIEVE THE HYPE. IT IS AN OLD TACTIC TO BUST A UNION DRIVE!!!

I would expect to see some kind of pay / benifet raise soon to try and slow the momentum that we have created. DO NOT BE TRICKED BY THE
:uzi: FORD / HARRISON
UNION BUSTING PLAYBOOK!!!!!!

 

[BirdCatcher]

I will also back that up.

Colgan Pilots
BEWARE!

The company is starting to rev up its union-busting machine. DO NOT BELIEVE THE HYPE. IT IS AN OLD TACTIC TO BUST A UNION DRIVE!!!

I would expect to see some kind of pay / benifet raise soon to try and slow the momentum that we have created. DO NOT BE TRICKED BY THE
:uzi: FORD / HARRISON
UNION BUSTING PLAYBOOK!!!!!!

The Colgan Pilots will see through this stuff, I have no doubt. Remember everyone Mike says "We have always had an open line of communicaton and hope to keep it going in the future." Well guys and gals let's think about that. How many times have they closed a base without telling any employees beforehand? How many times has numerous emails or voicemail led nowhere? They want us to vote NO so they can keep that going, his letter states it. How dare he even suggest we have had good communication, far from it.

The union busting is in full swing. Anyone notice for several weeks the company issued nothing about the union? The same time the CPG website wasn't updated either. Then when Colgan management starts up so does the CPG both using similar arguements almost like it was planned. Hmmmm. Speaking of which shame on certain CPG individuals on their lack of professionalism with their updates. (Some have been very professional but their updates seem to be deleted quickly). Here's what we as pilots should look for from the professional union busters:

Dirty tricks: Things like creating false documents and blaming union personal for such things.

Propaganda: Memos, letters, some of which are informational, sometimes misleading remember our open communication at Colgan

legal obstruction: Already been attempted and denied. I'm sure more attempts in the works

Put management on the same level: Make management appear to be with the group, show up to events, make small changes and say they were for us to make things better. (they always seem to care during union drives)

Expect these, when they happen it shows the professional union busting is in full effect. For mor info, ask Commutair guys about how this works. Expecially how after the drive is over all the caring goes away

 

[FDJ2]

ALPA does a horrible job of representing the "regional" guys,

In what way? Each regional pilot group has access to the same services and any ALPA legacy carrier. Whether its representation, medical or legal support. Each Regional MEC is elected by their own members, they select their own contract goals, conduct their own negotiations, choose their own strategy and ratifies their own contracts. Do you feel that the legacy carriers or national need to hold your hand, lead you through the process and make decisions for you? Do you not like local autonomy in your negotiations?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

In what way? Each regional pilot group has access to the same services and any ALPA legacy carrier. Whether its representation, medical or legal support. Each Regional MEC is elected by their own members, they select their own contract goals, conduct their own negotiations, choose their own strategy and ratifies their own contracts. Do you feel that the legacy carriers or national need to hold your hand, lead you through the process and make decisions for you? Do you not like local autonomy in your negotiations?

FDJ2-

I think what he means his perspective....

Even the legacy carrier pilots can be unhappy with ALPA....why?

Becuase they view the organization thru a self intrests lens.....

We all love democracy except when we lose.... then it is as hyperbolic as we can make it....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

In what way? Each regional pilot group has access to the same services and any ALPA legacy carrier. Whether its representation, medical or legal support. Each Regional MEC is elected by their own members, they select their own contract goals, conduct their own negotiations, choose their own strategy and ratifies their own contracts. Do you feel that the legacy carriers or national need to hold your hand, lead you through the process and make decisions for you? Do you not like local autonomy in your negotiations?

FDJ2-

I think what he means his perspective....

Even the legacy carrier pilots can be unhappy with ALPA....why?

Becuase they view the organization thru a self intrests lens.....

We all love democracy except when we lose.... then it is as hyperbolic as we can make it....

 

[BODENE]

You might want to talk to any Mid-Atlantic pilot. ALPA is in the middle of a huge DFR(Duty of Fair Representation) lawsuit with them. ALPA clearly did a poor job representing those pilots. ALPA is not the best choice out there. Do your homework, just because ALPA is big does not mean that they are the best for your organization. All this union stuff is BS anyway. If you have the ability, self organize and run your own shop....

Good luck!

 

[Fred Rogers]

You might want to talk to any Mid-Atlantic pilot. ALPA is in the middle of a huge DFR(Duty of Fair Representation) lawsuit with them. ALPA clearly did a poor job representing those pilots. ALPA is not the best choice out there. Do your homework, just because ALPA is big does not mean that they are the best for your organization. All this union stuff is BS anyway. If you have the ability, self organize and run your own shop....

Good luck!

YOU try an in-house union with <400 pilots. No money, no resources, no NOTHIN!