United starts taking Pilot Apps on Monday

[Prop Trash]

This isn't your Dad's United.

Agreed.

 

[AV80R]

...But right now, the idea of leaving my current position for United just isn't giving me a warm fuzzy...I think I'd be a fool to apply right now.

Where are you now? Another major, LCC, cargo?

 

[Guitar rocker]

I guess the point to my self-pity is that I wanted to go to United so bad I would have sold one of my children to get there 6 years ago. .

Really? I wouldnt have sold my pet fish to go to UAL.

 

[HA25]

I have never been so UN-excited about an app window for a major airline in my life.. SAD.. really sad. And they have the gaul to ask for "the best of the best".. for what? $1500/month take home with a slap in the face raise of $1000 for the 2nd year? Kiss my ass..

 

[Lear70]

I have never been so UN-excited about an app window for a major airline in my life.. SAD.. really sad. And they have the gaul to ask for "the best of the best".. for what? $1500/month take home with a slap in the face raise of $1000 for the 2nd year? Kiss my ass..

What he said...

I at least put my stuff in when the DAL window opened, just to give me the option IF they ever called.

Haven't even bothered to go to the UAL website.

 

[CaravanMan]

OMG, $1500/mo? No kidding? Good grief, and I thought that was bad when I was flying Twin Commanders.

 

[propjockey]

Where are you now? Another major, LCC, cargo?

CRJ captain at a "major" regional (not Mesa). Looking to other pastures since UAL is out of the question right now.

 

[Captain X]

When does the current contract expire?

You mean "becomes amendable" right? RLA contracts never "expire."

As sad as it be, its a given industry wide that first year pay is gonna suck no matter who your flying for, it be United , or Fed Ex, but is there any talk of fixxing 2nd year and up pay scales in the upcoming contract.....

Actually, I think DALs first year pay is pretty decent (relatively speaking) and that's coming from a bankruptcy derived concessionary agreement. Around $49/hour.

Of course SWA is around $52/hour.

JetBlue, $47/hour.

AirTran $43.

Yes, the so-called "Low Cost Carriers" have higher first year pay (and usually better benefits) than the legacy carriers. But to me, DAL is the shining legacy star if you will b/c they took it into bankruptcy and came out with a better CBA (pay rates aside) than most who aggressively bargained concessions to "avoid" bankruptcy. And they didn't sell out their first year pilots nearly as bad as the others did.

 

[The Victors]

I wouldn't be ashamed of applicants although I am extremely ashamed of our contract pay rates agreed upon during bk...esspecially new hire pay rates. I'm guessing those rates weren't fought for that hard because no one imagined UAL recalling everyone that wanted to come back and then hiring on top of that before the amendable date.
Not long ago we did have an industry leading contract. That contract was gained by the many folks on our seniority list who were willing to fight until the company came back with that industry leading contract. We were beat up in bk. Not saying we couldn't have fought harder than we did because we could of but apathy ruled at the time. Our contract blows but we're going to do what it takes to get it improved sooner than later.

Agreed. Whatever you want to say about united pilots, at least they stuck together to get that great contract. I would be very worried to go to UAL right now. They just exited bankruptcy and are still losing millions. No aircraft on order. Their bankruptcy exit plan was based on oil at $50 barrel. It's been above $70 for how long now?

 

[level370]

My dad retired off the 747 at United in July of 2001 (good timing, eh?). I'm currently an RJ captain itching to move on. I always wanted to work for United. My dad being there is what started me down this career path in the first place (would have gone military like dad, but my timing was all wrong).

I guess the point to my self-pity is that I wanted to go to United so bad I would have sold one of my children to get there 6 years ago. But right now, the idea of leaving my current position for United just isn't giving me a warm fuzzy. And it's not just the pay.

It just feels kind of weird having wanted this for such a long time, and now it's within my grasp. But I think I'd be a fool to apply right now.

Don't make your career choices from what you read on this forum. I can only speak for myself, but even under this crappy ch11 contract, things have not been that bad. I'm a 737 FO and bid mostly reserve and over the past year I have worked an average of 11 days a month. Most days are also fairly easy 2 -3 legs. Layovers usually average around 16 hours. Our reserve is a 13 or 4 hour call out - pretty laid back if you don't commute. Minimum rest on layovers is 9 hours "at the hotel" and 14 hours at domicile. I know payrates are curently low, but be sure to add the 16% for the B and C plans when making comparisons. Now that has been said, lets get back to how bad things are.

 

[HA25]

Don't make your career choices from what you read on this forum. I can only speak for myself, but even under this crappy ch11 contract, things have not been that bad. I'm a 737 FO and bid mostly reserve and over the past year I have worked an average of 11 days a month. Most days are also fairly easy 2 -3 legs. Layovers usually average around 16 hours. Our reserve is a 13 or 4 hour call out - pretty laid back if you don't commute. Minimum rest on layovers is 9 hours "at the hotel" and 14 hours at domicile. I know payrates are curently low, but be sure to add the 16% for the B and C plans when making comparisons. Now that has been said, lets get back to how bad things are.

contrast this to my friend who just went back to the Bus based in DC, sleeping in the crew lounge, covering 3 airports, and hardly has time to do his laundry on his 3 days off before he's back out to "sit" reserve.. takes home $55K (3rd year scale).. thanks but no thanks!

 

[Sandstorm]

just curious....i dont meet the pic mins, but was thinking about applying just for the hell of it. will the website automatically lock me out or can i still apply. i dont want to start the app and find out i cant finish it.

 

[HA25]

just curious....i dont meet the pic mins, but was thinking about applying just for the hell of it. will the website automatically lock me out or can i still apply. i dont want to start the app and find out i cant finish it.

what do you have to loose if you try? I would imagine they do like UPS did with some pre-qualification questions before you can go to the main body of the app, but they're not going to get to many "qualified" applicants now I would think so your best time to try is now.. just don't leave a good CRJ CA job for it (IMHO).

 

[BoilerUP]

just curious....i dont meet the pic mins, but was thinking about applying just for the hell of it. will the website automatically lock me out or can i still apply. i dont want to start the app and find out i cant finish it.

Yes you can apply - I did...plus you're senior to me so I say GO FOR IT!

Nothing ventured nothing gained, right?

 

[Lear70]

just don't leave a good CRJ CA job for it (IMHO).

That bears repeating...

Several times...

Leave a $70-80k a year RJ CA position for something it will take you 5-7 years just to BREAK EVEN from what you WOULD have made by staying put, go back on reserve, min days off, bottom of the seniority pile...

At an airline that obviously doesn't know HOW to make money in a time when almost every other Legacy carrier IS, has an enormous debt load, a financial plan based on their number one cost item (oil) being 30% lower than it actually IS, and an aging fleet with no aircraft replacement orders with age 65 coming down the pike to further depress upgrade movement...

With the rest of the industry poised to hire in RECORD numbers... including several viable Legacy carriers and Major LCC's. If you're qualified for UAL, you're qualified for all these others, too.

By all means, go ahead and apply... you can't make a job decision without a job OFFER, but I'd think long and hard about it.

Just my .02 cents from a guy who's been around the block a bit. Your mileage may vary.

 

[The Victors]

That bears repeating...

Several times...

Leave a $70-80k a year RJ CA position for something it will take you 5-7 years just to BREAK EVEN from what you WOULD have made by staying put, go back on reserve, min days off, bottom of the seniority pile...

At an airline that obviously doesn't know HOW to make money in a time when almost every other Legacy carrier IS, has an enormous debt load, a financial plan based on their number one cost item (oil) being 30% lower than it actually IS, and an aging fleet with no aircraft replacement orders with age 65 coming down the pike to further depress upgrade movement...

With the rest of the industry poised to hire in RECORD numbers... including several viable Legacy carriers and Major LCC's. If you're qualified for UAL, you're qualified for all these others, too.

By all means, go ahead and apply... you can't make a job decision without a job OFFER, but I'd think long and hard about it.

Just my .02 cents from a guy who's been around the block a bit. Your mileage may vary.

not to mention isn't management's number 1 priority right now to find a merger? Good times!

 

[John Pennekamp]

what do you have to loose if you try? I would imagine they do like UPS did with some pre-qualification questions before you can go to the main body of the app, but they're not going to get to many "qualified" applicants now I would think so your best time to try is now.. just don't leave a good CRJ CA job for it (IMHO).

The instructions clearly state "do not apply if you do not meet the minimum requirements". I would think it would disqualify you for not following directions.

 

[vtwo]

say again why?????????????????

Why?????????????
Why would you want to subject yourself and your family to a life of uncertainty, instability, low wages, crappy work rules, missing your kids plays and ball games, not making your cousins wedding, the empty plate at Thanksgiving table where you said you would make it in time, but now you missed your commute flight home and have to buy a hotel ,missing Christmas with your family, spending New Years, in a crappy hotels while your wife is at her works party with the new cute guy from upstairs, then when you get laid off, you wife is going to want you to step up and make some money doing what ever you can.

Whoa I got off on a rant sorry,
Good luck with your shiny jet syndrome hope it all works out in the end for ya

 

[GuppyPuppy]

The instructions clearly state "do not apply if you do not meet the minimum requirements". I would think it would disqualify you for not following directions.

I know that some think that it might show high interest and initiative to apply before meeting the minimum requirements. However, if I were on the hiring board and someone who was unqualified submitted an application I'd keep them on the "do not hire" list for sheer stupidity. If they can't follow simple instructions, how can I trust that they'd be safe flying my family?

If I were you I'd wait until I had the minimums and THEN apply.

Just my opinion...

GP

 

[John Pennekamp]

I know that some think that it might show high interest and initiative to apply before meeting the minimum requirements. However, if I were on the hiring board and someone who was unqualified submitted an application I'd keep them on the "do not hire" list for sheer stupidity. If they can't follow simple instructions, how can I trust that they'd be safe flying my family?

If I were you I'd wait until I had the minimums and THEN apply.

Just my opinion...

GP

My thoughts exactly.

 

[spinup]

contrast this to my friend who just went back to the Bus based in DC, sleeping in the crew lounge, covering 3 airports, and hardly has time to do his laundry on his 3 days off before he's back out to "sit" reserve.. takes home $55K (3rd year scale).. thanks but no thanks!

Some contrast, your friend is obviously commuting to reserve, what do you expect at any airline??? I’m not going into details but you are about $16,300 short on your figure of $55K for total compensation based on today’s contract, and even this assumes on reserve and not breaking guarantee. I'm not defending the contract by any means, only illustrating that those on the outside looking in seldom have their facts straight and often comprehend only part of the story. Seems to be a lot of that going around on flightinfo these days.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Some contrast, your friend is obviously commuting to reserve, what do you expect at any airline??? I’m not going into details but you are about $16,300 short on your figure of $55K for total compensation based on today’s contract, and even this assumes on reserve and not breaking guarantee. I'm not defending the contract by any means, only illustrating that those on the outside looking in seldom have their facts straight and often comprehend only part of the story. Seems to be a lot of that going around on flightinfo these days.

Ummmm.....he did say TAKE HOME pay. I think that's pretty accurate.

GP

 

[spinup]

Ummmm.....he did say TAKE HOME pay. I think that's pretty accurate.

GP

Good piont, I missed that. Credit returned...

 

[JohnyChimpo22]

Did everyone get an email today from the UAL app site telling you to check your flights times because people have been listing them wrong? Just curious. Hopefully everyone received it. Thanks

 

[UAL-GSO]

Why?????????????
Why would you want to subject yourself and your family to a life of uncertainty, instability, low wages, crappy work rules, missing your kids plays and ball games, not making your cousins wedding, the empty plate at Thanksgiving table where you said you would make it in time, but now you missed your commute flight home and have to buy a hotel ,missing Christmas with your family, spending New Years, in a crappy hotels while your wife is at her works party with the new cute guy from upstairs, then when you get laid off, you wife is going to want you to step up and make some money doing what ever you can.

Whoa I got off on a rant sorry,
Good luck with your shiny jet syndrome hope it all works out in the end for ya

Wow - that is one seriously half-empty glass there buddy!

Yes, this career (term used loosely) has its drawbacks and risks - always has. If uncertainty and instability bothers you, stay away from the airlines. If being away from home bothers you, find a nice, comfortable 9 to 5 job. If what your wife is doing with the new cute guy from upstairs bothers you, get some counseling. Nobody is putting a gun to anyones head to make them apply to UAL or anyone else. Live and let live.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

Did everyone get an email today from the UAL app site telling you to check your flights times because people have been listing them wrong? Just curious. Hopefully everyone received it. Thanks

Yes I received one, but when I try to get into the pop-up assessment, it says I have already completed it and wont let me back in. I think I did it right, PIC and SIC time only after you had your Commercial.

 

[AV80R]

Really? I wouldnt have sold my pet fish to go to UAL.

6 years ago? Sure you wouldn't...

 

[JohnyChimpo22]

JetPilot Mike,
Do you list total PIC after commerical multi? I thought they only counted PIC if you were signing a release as CA or Aircraft commander. What did most people do?

 

[AV80R]

…CRJ captain at a "major" regional (not Mesa). Looking to other pastures since UAL is out of the question right now… – Propjockey,

…just don't leave a good CRJCA job for it (IMHO)… – FMS-Speed.

Prop and FMS – call me crazy, and I guess maybe I am, however there’s not one regional airline I can think of that I would not leave if a major airline offered me a job.

My priorities would be: cargo airlines first (UPS and Fedex - of course I’m biased here ), followed by SWA, followed by one of the majors (domicile and where you live being the main decision maker here).

I don’t care how senior of a CRJ or an ERJ captain I would be at the time - I would still leave. My reasoning being – this is as good as it gets, versus, this is as bad as it gets and it can only get better from now on.

Of course, if you have family, kids, etc. you might not be able to take the big pay- and QoL cut, but that’s a different story.

This is just my view of course and I’m sure everyone is about to prove me wrong… Fire away…

 

[igneousy2]

JetPilot Mike,
Do you list total PIC after commerical multi? I thought they only counted PIC if you were signing a release as CA or Aircraft commander. What did most people do?

Well, any PIC time as a Private Pilot - United would not want you to count - even though you signed for the airplane.

This whole thing is a little annoying - if they want me to fly there - what difference does it REALLY make, 5,859 hours of PIC or 5, 437, nearly all of it in multis, most in turbines under part 121, a good chunk in jets - does it really matter at the end of the day.

I guess they just can't ask the chief pilot's sons, and all those squadron buddies that are barely squeaking by in one column or another to sharpen their pencils.


Later