More fun with crew scheduling at Colgan Air

[Afraid to Fly]

Crew scheduling at Colgan Air told a pilot today that the only way they could deadhead that pilot on a full flight is if that the pilot PAYS for the first class upgrade fee.

Voting starts July 31st to August 21st.

 

[Turbojet23]

Stop posting fake bull to try and further your unneeded union drive.

 

[vtchaz]

Crew scheduling at Colgan Air told a pilot today that the only way they could deadhead that pilot on a full flight is if that the pilot PAYS for the first class upgrade fee.

Voting starts July 31st to August 21st.

If the flight is FULL they can't deadhead you...so stop trying to create something out of nothing.

 

[Turbojet23]

By the way who was that FEDEX MEC? the other day trying to sell alpa at the "food paid by other pilots" meeting in LGA?

He keeping talking about the Jets and RJs we are getting soon and why we needed alpa cause of it. I kept asking if he was talking about the Qs and he would reply yes. After several attempts to explain that they (Qs) were turboprops and we where a turboprop carrier he just never got it. Think he should learn a thing or two about my company before he tries to tell me why I need a union at colgan.

They just want your dues.

 

[V-1]

If the flight is full they won't deadhead you? You're kidding right? What do you do...spend your days off sitting at the airport waiting for a flight with an empty seat that the company will allow you to deadhead on?

I hope they at least provide hotel rooms for you in lieu of transporting you home...as any other employer would.

 

[BirdCatcher]

If the flight is FULL they can't deadhead you...so stop trying to create something out of nothing.

Yes they can, they do it all the time to get pilots TO a flight, but FROM after you fulfilled your duty that's another story.

 

[Turbojet23]

Yes they can, they do it all the time to get pilots TO a flight, but FROM after you fulfilled your duty that's another story.

They can only bump a pax on a colgan operated flight for a must-ride. A union isn't going to change that.

 

[nethan]

They can only bump a pax on a colgan operated flight for a must-ride. A union isn't going to change that.

Actually, yes a union could change it. If you get it in your ENFORCEABLE contract the company will have to negotiate a deal with whom ever they are flying for (US, UAL, CAL what ever) to allow them to bump paying pax off a flight to get you home.

Edumacation is a wonderful thing.

 

[suupah]

They just want your dues.

Explain to me how ALPA will profit from Colgan air. We would be subsidized by bigger carriers. there is no way we would make money for them. we are too small and 1.95% percent of our salaries won't even cover the lawyers.

 

[Turbojet23]

Explain to me how ALPA will profit from Colgan air. We would be subsidized by bigger carriers. there is no way we would make money for them. we are too small and 1.95% percent of our salaries won't even cover the lawyers.

1.95% is more to them then 0.0%.

 

[BirdCatcher]

Explain to me how ALPA will profit from Colgan air. We would be subsidized by bigger carriers. there is no way we would make money for them. we are too small and 1.95% percent of our salaries won't even cover the lawyers.

This is true. Pinnacle MEC for example got 2 million dollars from ALPA's MCF from contract negotiations. I did some simple math and figure about $217,000 would be total dues for 1 year from Colgan. That money has to cover office rent, supplies, staff just for Colgan plus lawyers for contract negotiations, and Colgan pilots who need legal service. We would surely get money from ALPA, even XJet receives money from ALPA national to help with their operation. That "They just want our money" excuse isn't valid. If your against it fine, but have a better reason then that.

 

[suupah]

1.95% is more to them then 0.0%.

That is true. BUT i have a sneaking suspicion that their services rendered for our little pilot group will cost more than what they collect from us.

Their interest is more about what Colgan means to the larger picture. I think our interest as professional pilots should be about that too.

They aren't perfect and they got their A@@'s handed to them over the past five years in the bankruptcy chapter of industry, but i think they may be the only realistic option we have right now.

 

[suupah]

Basically the "they ain't gettn my money" argument is from people who want something for nothing.

 

[BoilerUP]

1.95% is pretty damn cheap when you consider what you get from National:

ALPA Legal Services
ALPA Aeromedical (saved my ass already)
Loss-of-License Insurance
ASAP (if you don't have it already)
A legally-binding, negotiated CBA

Ultimately though, ALPA and its success or failure at Colgan will be 100% attributable to the unity, effort, sacrifice and hard work of the pilot group and the volunteers that step up into leadership roles.

 

[vtchaz]

What?

I've bumped revenue as a deadhead on a USAir mainline and Express flight. And I work for an Express carrier.

In fact I've seen Colgan bump revenue on flights from ALB and PIT. Both pilots and FA's.

I think you're the one spouting the BS trying to kill the union drive.

As a MUST RIDE on USAirways and our other partner carriers, you do go before any revenue. They cannot book you however AFTER the flight is already booked full! When the flights are oversold, IF they booked you before that happened, you do in effect "bump revenue". Know the difference.

And no union will change that.

 

[BoilerUP]

They cannot book you however AFTER the flight is already booked full!

I don't think that is 100% accurate.

If they're deadheading a crew to protect a flight you can damn sure bet they'll find a way to get them onboard that airplane, previously oversold or not.

And no union will change that.

If the company can get you to work, they can get you home from it. Language in a legally enforceable CBA can ensure that...

 

[indianboy7]

1.95% is pretty damn cheap when you consider what you get from National:

ALPA Legal Services
ALPA Aeromedical (saved my ass already)
Loss-of-License Insurance
ASAP (if you don't have it already)
A legally-binding, negotiated CBA

Ultimately though, ALPA and its success or failure at Colgan will be 100% attributable to the unity, effort, sacrifice and hard work of the pilot group and the volunteers that step up into leadership roles.

I can't stand it when the ALPA people spout inaccurate information.....no one ever mentions that you have to pay extra for the loss-of-license insurance...nor do they mention that you can get it from other sources, sometimes for cheaper. The lawyers and medical are a good support group, but you can get a similar entourage from AOPA for 100 a year.....

 

[BoilerUP]

I can't stand it when the ALPA people spout inaccurate information.....

I never spouted inaccurate information.

Loss of License coverage is provided free of charge for Apprentice (probationary) ALPA members, and if you chose to keep the coverage once you go Active it does cost extra...but the cost is extremely reasonable. If you know an alternate source that can provide me equivalent LOL coverage for at a comparable cost ($114 annually for $1200/mo for 48 months and $95 annually for a $50,000 lump sum) I would love to know about it.

I can also tell you from first hand experience that while AOPA has good medical and legal coverage, their products absolutely do not provide services equal to that of ALPA for a 121 pilot.

 

[XJohXJ]

I've bumped numerous paying NWA mainline pax to get my little regional FO behind to and from assignments, whether I am going to work or going home.

The reason I can do this is that my ALPA contract states that my employer provides "must-ride" transportation to and from any out-of-domicile assignment.

And it doesn't matter one fricken bit if the flight is oversold or not before they book me. Not one bit.

What happens if the NWA mainline gate agent says "you can't get on this flight, you're late, and the plane is oversold"?

Why, it's simple: I call crew scheduling and say "they won't let me on." CS says "OK, just a sec.."

Then, a minute or two passes, and the little phone at the gate rings, and the agent scowls, and then I get my ticket and someone gets bumped, and I get to go home to my family, because my contract guarantees me that fundamental right.

You guys at Colgan never cease to amaze me with some of the phenomenal BS you have to put up with. I am quite sure you are every bit as good a group of employees as any airline has. You deserve better.

I assure you that it will cost ALPA a lot of money to represent you. ALPA has given millions of dollars to Mesaba, and they will do the same for you.

Life will get a lot better (there might be some suffering first, mind you...) if you vote for union representation. If not ALPA, then at least the teamsters....

Not getting guaranteed absolute positive space transport to and from out-of-your-domicile-work is absolute BS. You deserve better than that.

Having to rent a car to DRIVE yourself (for the love of all that's holy!!!) to another domicile, WITH YOUR OWN credit card, is simply unbelievable. I still can't imagine that you aren't making it up when you post stories like that. It's like you're living on another, at-will-employment, planet. Do yourselves a favor, and get an enforceable contract, ASAP.

 

[mckpickle]

1.95% is more to them then 0.0%.

You sir are a moron. Even large regionals like Express Jet spend more money than they take in. We are subsidized by other larger carriers from the ALPA general fund. Some examples of what we do with that money......Our hotel committee travels with the company reps to approve all hotels. The scheuling committee is bought off trips (paid for by alpa and the company) and are the ones who actually build the schedules. We are in the process of getting input into the contruction of the pairings.

In 98 when ALPA was courting us I thought it was silly too. I couldn't have been more wrong. The QOL I have at XJT is a DIRECT result of the contract that ALPA negotiated with the company. Because of my QOL and pay I turned down my slot at CAL two years ago. My friends who went will not see the pay I'm at for another 2 years and will never have the days off I have.

 

[Prop2Jet]

you anti-union people can suck my BLEEP. So what 1.95%. Since you make soooo much anyhow that must be a lot of of money. How much for a laywer when you need one? Or how about medical defense, or cheaper insurance or ... the list goes on. If you are anti-union at Colgan you are probably new and drank the blue water.

GOT SOME NEWS FOR YOU ANTI-ALPA PEOPLE! MY VOTE MEANS I WIN IN THIS DEBATE AND YES I DO CONTROL YOUR PAY NOW!!!! THANKS FOR 1.95% CONCESSION THAT WAS EASY. HAHAHAHAH TOUGH GOING GIRLS

 

[Turtlesfly]

ASAP alone is worth your money

Unless you Colgan pilots don't think you'll ever make a mistake

 

[70-SS]

Unless you Colgan pilots don't think you'll ever make a mistake

Might be some truth there.

 

[pilotdiscretion]

The one benefit to ALPA I haven't seen listed here is the safety and accident investigation department.

As a new member to the Pinnacle family you can expect operational error, accidents and incidents to rise as fast as corporate profits. Your gonna need someone in your corner when the finger pointing starts.

 

[70-SS]

How many of you anti-ALPA Colganites have actually worked for a union carrier before?

None!!!!!!!! And that's the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Fred Rogers]

Basically the "they ain't gettn my money" argument is from people who want something for nothing.

COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER

 

[Fred Rogers]

By the way who was that FEDEX MEC? the other day trying to sell alpa at the "food paid by other pilots" meeting in LGA?

He keeping talking about the Jets and RJs we are getting soon and why we needed alpa cause of it. I kept asking if he was talking about the Qs and he would reply yes. After several attempts to explain that they (Qs) were turboprops and we where a turboprop carrier he just never got it. Think he should learn a thing or two about my company before he tries to tell me why I need a union at colgan.

They just want your dues.

This is such baloney I don't know why I'm bothering to respond. But I'll bite.

You ate a free lunch on that FED EX guy's dues. HE bought your lunch. Speaking of, the naysayer crowd never mentions FED EX in their arguement against ALPA. SO naysayers.. WHAT HAS ALPA DONE FOR FED EX?? HA HA HA!! ASK a Fedex guy, (I guess one was at one of our events supporting us in our efforts to get alpa) ha ha ha.

I guess the dues thing has been covered. ALPA would be better off financially to NOT have Colgan in their ranks. Judging from all the Potbellys they have been buying in Dulles (from what I've seen) and what it costs to negotiate a contract, our dues are the last thing on their mind. I think someone quoted a number, and it's right. MILLIONS of dollars go into that sort of thing. Our pilot group will never generate that, especially considering that 1.95% of jack is JACK.

I half jokingly thanked a United pilot for the sandwich because it was his dues that bought it, and he said not to mention it, it was a worthwhile cause to RAISE THE BAR FOR EVERYONE!

In conclusion, turbojet, you strike me as tool-a-rific.

Go back to sucking up to management, see where they are for you when ALPA is on property.

 

[Fred Rogers]

1.95% is pretty damn cheap when you consider what you get from National:

ALPA Legal Services
ALPA Aeromedical (saved my ass already)
Loss-of-License Insurance
ASAP (if you don't have it already)
A legally-binding, negotiated CBA

Ultimately though, ALPA and its success or failure at Colgan will be 100% attributable to the unity, effort, sacrifice and hard work of the pilot group and the volunteers that step up into leadership roles.

This is SOOOO true!

 

[70-SS]

I half jokingly thanked a United pilot for the sandwich because it was his dues that bought it, and he said not to mention it, it was a worthwhile cause to RAISE THE BAR FOR EVERYONE!

In conclusion, turbojet, you strike me as tool-a-rific.

Go back to sucking up to management, see where they are for you when ALPA is on property.

Good point. The precedent we set at Colgan goes a long way.

 

[OPECJet]

So for you naysayers, a few questions.

When you get called in for the CRPET 1 Arrival at the CP's office, who defends you? Who researches ways to get your ass out of trouble when you shouldn't be in it in the first place?

Who speaks for you after you're involved in an incident or accident?

Who helps you return to flight status after a disqualifying medical diagnosis?

Who helps you regain flight status after a false positive drug test?

Who defends your actions made during an in flight emergency when the feds are looking at the FDR and CVR with a microscope?

Who ensures you won't receive a violation while taxiing at LGA because you thought Miss Cleo said something else?

Who enforces your contract? Do you have a contract?

Who provides you with legal council when scheduling pushed you past 16 hours, or 30 in 7, or 100 hours / 1000 hours and you didn't catch it? (or the times weren't entered correctly in the computer).

I really can't think of any reason NOT to have ALPA on the property in the situation you're in. It certainly isn't the answer to everything, but it is an invaluable tool when you need it. At some point in your career, you WILL need it.